iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch • Hacker News Board

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#411

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:33 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #118

victorhooi wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are talking about the device that he sold him right? Not the iPhone? Lol. He offered a full refund (although he admittedly could be a bit more tactful). If he's said - I'm disabling it, too bad, I'd agree that's out of line. However, what was actually said was - You're a jerk - I don't want your business, give me back the device, and I'll give you the money back. Now they don't have to deal with each other, and no…

The issue is we've entered an age where, because of devices' entanglement with the cloud, the manufacturer's interest in the object isn't exhausted at the moment of sale. This is a big change in the way things have traditionally been done, and in the long term it could have major consequences. This isn't the first time something like this has happened - but usually manufacturers are pretty reticent about it, and try…

[deleted]

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#412

Post by HurrdurrHodor » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:36 PM UTC

I'm kind of happy that this is happening. Whatever the legal situation may be this is just wrong and it needs to be fixed.

On steam you don't buy games anymore you only buy the right to play them so you cannot resell them. You are effectively buying a service.

Now in this case you are buying a device that does not work without the service and you don't have a right to the service?

No, this does not make sense.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#413

Post by jo909 » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 9:54 PM UTC

PeterisP wrote: post #395

jo909 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitive NO. I think you mean they have to offer free _return shipping_. I only know the situation in Germany for that, and the law here is not even as straightforward as most customers expect, just the big online retailers are pretty relaxed with their return policies (because that is what the customers are expecting). There is no situation where you could insist on keeping a defective product, and its also not co…

Yes, they have to offer free return shipping and for many small items, receiving a to-be-refurbished item is almost worthless to the manufacturer, so it's both cheaper and simpler just to not ask for the item back.

Actually in Germany there is no longer a law that forces the retailer to cover the return shipping costs. They will have to refund your money no questions asked, including the shipping fee you paid, if you return the item in the first two weeks, but not the return shipping. But since for a few years there was such a law, it is very very commonly offered anyway.

And also you can in principle be asked to cover any loss of value if you damaged the product or used it in any way that was not "necessary for testing/evaluation".

So far I had to return every item I did not like or that arrived damaged. Especially for obviously damaged goods it makes no direct sense for them to ask for it back to trow it away on their end, but I really think at least a retailer like amazon does not just hand waive a decision like that and has some economic reasons.

Somewhat related, once I noticed a significant price drop the day after I had bought a product from amazon, and asked support if they could refund me the difference. They could not, but told me to just order another one for the lower price and refuse the delivery of the first order (which means the logistics company returns the item directly).

So clearly "cheaper and simpler" for a company like amazon is not always as straightforward as one might expect.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#414

Post by Lazare » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 10:21 PM UTC

Just1689 wrote: post #25

Lazare wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure any negative review is painful, but that hardly seems to cross any lines. "Abusive language" is really, really, really stretching it.

Yeah, abusive language it is not. It's more of a tantrum. Looking at the other reviews, it does seem that the company is happy to help with issues even where there is a negative review.

> it does seem that the company is happy to help with issues even where there is a negative review.

Sometimes doing the right thing doesn't make doing the wrong thing okay. In the linked case, there was a negative review, they were not happy to help with with issues, and they bricked the device.

Legally they may be okay.. Morally I think they're wrong. And from a PR point of view this is literally the worst possible thing they could do, what are they insane?

(And as others have noted, the rep is significantly more guilty than the customer of abusive language and throwing a tantrum. Ironic...)

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#415

Post by jtmb » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 11:28 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #333

Steve0 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, but please tell them that before they enter a contract with you. Don't take their cash followed by not providing a service for reasons not stipulated before accepting the money.

You would think "please don't be an asshole" would be common sense, but I suppose adding it your product description about you providing support is being explicit.

Not only providing support, but unilaterally disabling the product they purchased after the fact. That should be incredibly explicit. And even then.

Just look at Ham Radio Deluxe.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#416

Post by Arizhel » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 12:04 AM UTC

jimmies wrote: post #41

I don't know why many comments about "the customer is clearly an asshole, therefore he deserves the lock not working/the company has the legal rights to do so blah blah" are modded so high right now. Even when the customer is an asshole, that has absolutely nothing to do with a security device betraying him or not. I'm very glad that the customer is now only denied access to the app. I can see one day a company that…

I agree mostly, except the last part about DRM. I don't like DRM either, but this isn't DRM, this is a case where a physical device is dependent upon a cloud/internet service to actually function. So if the company either goes belly-up, or (as in this case) decides to capriciously revoke your device's access, you're left with a device that simply does not function.

Personally, I think this is terrible, but I think this incident is a good wake-up call to how ridiculous this kind of thing is, and why consumers should stay far, far away from such devices. I hope this gets a lot of mainstream media attention. But it's not DRM; that's an entirely different animal. That's where your own device (usually a computer or mobile computing device like a phone) is sent some encrypted media content, along with keys to decrypt it, so that it can only be viewed on your device (and according to certain stipulations), and this is enforced by your own device against you, the device's owner.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#417

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 12:08 AM UTC

theprotocol wrote: post #375

toomuchtodo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how you'd feel if a company decided to disable your fridge years after you bought it, because you publicly pointed out an issue with the product and figured it's worth 2 stars. Tell me, is there a time limit on this insanity? I don't buy networked products that I'm not okay with losing the cloud functionality at a moment's notice. Caveat emptor.

The means by which the company deprives you of the product is not what's being debated.

Return the product if you're not happy then. You're not entitled to a service, only the piece of hardware.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#418

Post by xanderstrike » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 12:12 AM UTC

jo909 wrote: post #159

throw_this_away wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the sentiment, but why should a hardware company let the user keep the device and their money? Issuing a refund and finding a way to retrieve the device so it can be resold makes much more sense to me. Especially for a small company.... Giving away your product for free to every customer that complains seems like a quick way to go out of business. If you buy a faulty ipad from apple, they'll certainly give you…

Not a 99 dollar retail price device. I'd guess the hardware earned the developer maybe 10, 20 bucks? Loosing one or two less future sale probably makes up for the loss. Understanding that one customers frustration and improving the experience for other new future customers could literally be priceless.

If the company only makes $20 bucks on it, then they're losing $80 by giving it away. That's how profit margins work.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#419

Post by jungletek » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 12:29 AM UTC

atemerev wrote: post #189

barking wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only because the reaction was so unusual. I'd react the way you suggest but I admire people who react the way he did. And, every now and then you hear of a business with a fuck you attitude that succeeds, e.g. Ryanair

And if Ryanair representative suddenly appeared here and banned you from ever flying with them because you talk shit about them on HN, you'd have been rightfully mad. Even more so if you had the ticket on hands. :)

Nah, they're garbage, verging on a human-cattle transport service. Fuck 'em. There's far superior carriers servicing the same areas for the same or very similar prices.

Come at me, Ryanair :)

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#420

Post by vatotemking » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 4:25 AM UTC

dqv wrote: post #68

qume wrote: post #53

Dear customer, We are a small team who don't have the resources to test every single OS version on every device. Problems will happen. As such we're happy to issue you a refund, and you can keep the device. All we ask is that you let us update the app to make sure it's working on your device, and hopefully others. Thank you for helping us find the issue. We will work tirelessly until it is fixed. If at some stage you…

Yep. It usually turns out better that way. (except I'm not sure how I feel about asking them to change their review at this stage)

I have a business selling software. And most of the the time, rude customers are just frustrated with the product. Once you start to address their concerns, they are actually very friendly and would not hesitate to change their review or give a 5 star rating.