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Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

bloomberg.com

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Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#131

Post by Lazare »

pharrlax wrote: post #125
Lazare wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I dunno, why wouldn't it be okay? I interact with a lot of companies on a day-to-day basis; big ones (Facebook, Google), small ones (the corner shop I bought an energy drink at on my way to work), and everything in between. Offhand I'd say that none of them have a legal expectation to work in my best interest, nor would I…

>Or do you think there's something special about this particular product that makes it different than every other good or service in the economy? The difference is that we have drawn a line beyond which that company cannot operate by passing a law that bans certain practices, and the CFPB is alleging Navient violated that law.

I was responding to the suggestion that it wasn't okay for any company to not have a legal duty to act in the best interests of its customers.

Navient may well have such a duty. :)

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#132

Post by lr4444lr »

Lazare wrote: post #112
xkcd-sucks wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The energy drink company's interest is to minimize its cost. Years of bad behavior in this regard eventually led to pure food/drug laws, but in places with weak rule of law plenty of people are still poisoned by dodgy food.

Oh yes, absolutely. We have laws banning outright fraud, setting minimum food safety standards, a lot of rules about packaging and labelling. And that's good! But we don't have any laws or expectation that a food vendor is going to be acting in my best interests. If I want to spend my rent money on 87 large pepperoni pizzas, nobody is going to arrest the guy who took my order because he didn't sit down and have a 30…

That was a great analogy.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#133

Post by the_watcher »

55555 wrote: post #119
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

I have had the idea for a long time that the FTC should basically work as follows: put a few dozen randomly chosen people through a sales funnel and then give them a quiz at the end about how much they will be charged and other terms of service engagement. If more than x% of people fail the quiz, then you are guilty of misleading advertising.

This is a fantastic idea.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#134

Post by lr4444lr »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #74
wyldfire wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understood the article. Navient is a debt collector. They were sold loans owned by the US Dept of Ed (or hired by the department of ed maybe?) "more than 40 percent of loan balances it services...." means that out of the loans that the US Dept of Ed decided it can't collect on anymore -- many of those are using the option that would benefit them the most. The article talks about Navient saying one t…

> out of the loans that the US Dept of Ed decided it can't collect on anymore Nope - Navient isn't a collector, it's a servicing company.

It's both[0]. But what it's not doing is duping aspiring college graduates to take out these loans in the first place. As detestable as their predation on the delinquent may be, they're not pumping up the loan bubble.

https://www.navient.com/about/who-we-are/services/

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#135

Post by lr4444lr »

jm__87 wrote: post #104

Honestly, this is a private corp acting in its own best interests under the law. Everyone here complaining that Navient is horrible... this is what capitalism is. If you don't like the law, talk to your congressman/senators and get the law changed. IMHO the schools are the bad guys here.. they are taking advantage of a situation where the government will just hand loans to everyone and there is no way they can lose.…

Exactly. This is blaming the vultures who pick at the carcasses for the predators who set the traps.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#136

Post by maverick_iceman »

anigbrowl wrote: post #61
noonespecial wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding because it was larger and so nullified the smaller. This also means that if you want to place limitations (like 'one per customer' etc)…

I was thinking about this the other day looking at a billboard, talking about how Alive/Bob/Carol wasa winner! at the local casino, with a tiny 'play responsibly' box huddled in the corner. I don't have a strong opinion about gambling but I do care about externalities, and I was amused by the idea that some percentage of billboards (reflective of the incidence of problematic gambling) should feature Alive, Bob and Ca…

False or misleading commercial speech is not protected by the First Amendment.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#137

Post by pfooti »

rhino369 wrote: post #64
jordanmoconnor wrote: post #5

It's mind-blowing how the majority of high school students are lied to each year about the ROI of college. The internet has re-written the rules, and high school educators don't know how to teach that. I would have benefited so much more from a program that taught how to be self-sufficient and the major, major benefits of living debt free. Context: $150k in student loans - lucky enough to have an electrical engineeri…

College degrees still mostly have a good ROI. The huge lie is the ROI on pedigree, prestige, whatever you want to call it. Kids are still being told to apply to expensive small private schools and to worry about the financial aid process later. Kids are told to find the right fit. None of that really matters. The big ROI is just getting a degree or the type of degree. There are few elite schools that have a much bett…

I agree with this 100%. I went to a state school (michigan state) on an academic scholarship instead of going to rensselaer or MIT, where i'd been accepted but with a lot more loans in my financial aid package.

It's conceivable that I'd have had a better job right out of college, especially given the network effects of the big-name schools, but I got an excellent education. Of course, my job prospects were helped by grad school (UC Berkeley), but by that time I knew very well what I wanted to Be When I Grew Up, so the investment was worth it (and ended up being very small, as I managed to live cheaply (it was the early 2000s) and swing a grad assistantship most of the time. On top of all that, the stuff I'm doing means I have to keep learning all the time, so the actual stuff I learned as an undergrad and in grad school was far less important than the habits of mind I acquired there that made me a good learner.

Bargain hunting for an education is really important. I've met lots and lots of people since graduating, some were amazing at their jobs and could get work anywhere and some were ... not. That didn't seem to correlate much with alma mater.

So yeah: a college degree can be great, but you don't need to go to a small elite private school to hone your analytical, technical, communication, and creative skills. It's way more about making use of what's available.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#138

Post by [deleted] »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #110
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

One of the measures from Dodd-Frank that the current administration wants to roll back is a provision that investment professionals act in the best interest of their clients. Presumably, they want the option to steer you towards their in house funds that have the highest fees instead of helping you het the max return on your investment.

[deleted]

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#139

Post by [deleted] »

noonespecial wrote: post #9
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

>I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding because it was larger and so nullified the smaller. This also means that if you want to place limitations (like 'one per customer' etc)…

[deleted]

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#140

Post by woogiewonka »

noonespecial wrote: post #9
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

>I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding because it was larger and so nullified the smaller. This also means that if you want to place limitations (like 'one per customer' etc)…

Yes.
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