Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own • Hacker News Board

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#101

Post by kelnos » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 11:21 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #52

techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

> So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? Because that's the default rule when it comes to arm's-length transactions in the economy? Unless there is a special relationship ( e.g. doctor-patient), everyone takes care of their end of the transaction. The government offers very generous loan repayment options for student borrowers. It's Navient's job to collect payme…

I don't think it should be, unless they publicly advertise that they will help borrowers... which they did.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#102

Post by kelnos » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 11:30 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #34

jknoepfler wrote: post #8

While I appreciate that people are sour about student debt, I don't think Navient, qua big business, should behave in any other way. I personally think public universities should be free and highly selective, rather than the opposite. But I also think taking out loans with no plan to repay them is criminally stupid. If the education product being sold is fraudulent, go after the fraudulent institution (as has been do…

I believe that school loans should only be allowed for jobs. If you love art and are interested in "under water basket weaving" as a degree that is great, but it won't pay the bills and so you should save your money to pay for it. When you decide to become a medical doctor, it is understood your eventually worth will pay off reasonable loans. My solution: student loans may be discharged in bankruptcy, but your school…

> The only angle I'm still working out is if someone finishes a degree, declares bankruptcy, and then goes back to the same degree (elsewhere) - they don't have the credits but they presumably know the material and can easily pass all the classes the second time around with a better grade.

Is that a problem, though? Presumably they still have to pay for the degree the second time around. And if they don't (say, a free community college), then sure, they're getting something "easier", but they still have to spend the time to get it, and they're getting a degree from a low-ranked college vs. the (for example) elite university they went through the first time.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#103

Post by pmiller2 » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 11:31 PM UTC

danudey wrote: post #77

ap3 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For casinos make the odds of winning play a part in the adverts. 99.9% of the casino adds have to show people sad about losing - before we get 1 winning ad

Nah, just require them to disclose the odds for any games of chance. "Visit Golden Palace photo of a roulette wheel for a 46% chance of breaking even!"

Wouldn't help. Lottery tickets have the odds of winning printed right on them, and people still buy them.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#104

Post by jm__87 » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 11:37 PM UTC

Honestly, this is a private corp acting in its own best interests under the law. Everyone here complaining that Navient is horrible... this is what capitalism is. If you don't like the law, talk to your congressman/senators and get the law changed.

IMHO the schools are the bad guys here.. they are taking advantage of a situation where the government will just hand loans to everyone and there is no way they can lose. Why not just make an undergraduate degree a public good at this point. Taxpayers are already paying to bail all these people out, it is partially a public good already except the students who hold all the debt have to go through hell and Navient gets a cut of the taxpayer money in the process.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#105

Post by djrogers » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 11:40 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #27

paulpauper wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, reality paints a sightly more optimistic picture...the average debt per graduate is $30,000--about the price of a new car, but as measured by wages, a degree gains value (this is because since 2009 wages for grads have seen much stronger growth than wages for non-grads) http://greyenlightenment.com/is-college-a-big-waste-of-time-... I read stories on Reddit about grads who have debt but are also making decent 5…

The median student debt is a lot more interesting, it's much lower than $30,000. The median of all outstanding student debt is around $14,000 today (for households that have any student debt). The median debt for individuals that went to public universities is closer to $10,000. The average is massively skewed by the top few percentage of all borrowers that have taken on almost unfathomable loans.

You're comparing two different cohorts - newly graduated students, and everyone who has any student debt. Obviously the second group is going to have lower median and average, so comparing the two is pointless.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#106

Post by bbrian » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 11:46 PM UTC

bbrazil wrote: post #19

noonespecial wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding because it was larger and so nullified the smaller. This also means that if you want to place limitations (like 'one per customer' etc)…

That's already (roughly) the law in the EU.

It's why software licences have some text in capitals.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#107

Post by djrogers » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 11:49 PM UTC

techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

> why the is this OK? From any company?

For the same reason that it's always been expected from any company. Do you expect a local car dealer to act in your best interests if you show up as a result of a radio ad?

Caveat Emptor is in Latin for a reason - people have been living by the maxim for a really really long time.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#108

Post by djrogers » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 11:51 PM UTC

alistproducer2 wrote: post #46

Student loan money is awesome. Go to a state school, pay for school with PELL grants and working. Take the loan money and bank/invest/refinance stuff with it. The interest doesn't start accruing until after graduation so until then it's free money. The worst thing you can do with it is actually pay for school with it, especially an expensive private school for a degree with uncertain job prospects.

Investing with borrowed money that you legally cannot default on is not a good plan...

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#109

Post by thatfrenchguy » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 11:52 PM UTC

alistproducer2 wrote: post #46

Student loan money is awesome. Go to a state school, pay for school with PELL grants and working. Take the loan money and bank/invest/refinance stuff with it. The interest doesn't start accruing until after graduation so until then it's free money. The worst thing you can do with it is actually pay for school with it, especially an expensive private school for a degree with uncertain job prospects.

Then the market crashes and you're left with non-dischargeable debt, great.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#110

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 12:10 AM UTC

techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

One of the measures from Dodd-Frank that the current administration wants to roll back is a provision that investment professionals act in the best interest of their clients.

Presumably, they want the option to steer you towards their in house funds that have the highest fees instead of helping you het the max return on your investment.