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Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

wsj.com

41–50 of 107 posts

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. You need to have the Amazon Go app installed on your phone, and you scan your phone at what looks like a turnstile to enter the store, from the store's PR videos. Then the store keeps track of what you pick up using computer vision, your phone and various sensors, and charges everything you walk out with to your account. Unless you can avoid the requirement to load an app and scan it to get into the store, walki…

So children are not allowed in the store? What's stopping someone from just stuffing their kid full of high end goods and asking them to wait in the car?

I don't know how they designed it, but if they use anything like a phone-unlocked turnstile or revolving door to let people in, they might just count every person that comes in until the gate closes again as being attached to the account of the person that opened the gate. So when any of them leave with something, that's a charge to you.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#43
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time for some "identical twin" experiments.

I am an identical twin and on my brothers surface book I'm able to fool windows hello for some reason.

> for some reason

Hmm, maybe it's because he's your identical twin?

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#44
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how exactly is someone charged when they don't have an amazon account / connected phone / whatever method of payment is being used here? are you saying you need to swipe your card on the way in?

Yes. You need to have the Amazon Go app installed on your phone, and you scan your phone at what looks like a turnstile to enter the store, from the store's PR videos. Then the store keeps track of what you pick up using computer vision, your phone and various sensors, and charges everything you walk out with to your account. Unless you can avoid the requirement to load an app and scan it to get into the store, walki…

What about using worthless phones and masks? For under $5 I can get an Android or a dozen of them, load them up with this app, and be good to go. Need a credit card? No trouble, get a prepaid card for $1.95 at the corner store, load 5 dollars on it, auth it with the Amazon account, and pull $4.99 off it. Then go get some steaks on the house!

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#45
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So children are not allowed in the store? What's stopping someone from just stuffing their kid full of high end goods and asking them to wait in the car?

The same thing that stops people from doing that in a regular store? Mostly good morals backed up with cameras and the occasional security guard.

Theft rates can get pretty high, look at the Tide theft phenomenon.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#46
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can already foresee a dozen people showing up in zebra-striped hoodies to see what happens when they shop together.

Amazon will counter by convincing third parties to resell their goods on the shelf. Amazon takes their cut of sales, but doesn't chip in on losses or fraud. Oh wait...

Does Amazon already do this?

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#47
post #26

All it takes is a loss factor of a few percent, and the entire model breaks down. This is the same reason that long-range RFID (UHF RFID) never worked for cashierless checkout too. You couldn't ensure 100% coverage. Some tags just couldn't be read -- either due to adversarial tactics (eg. shielding with your body) or material properties (eg. metal) -- and the engineering countermeasures to overcome these challenges m…

RFID is expensive. Even buying the cheapest transponders in bulk, you're still looking at $0.01-$0.05 per label - that's enough to kill the concept entirely for high-volume, low-value goods such as supermarket/grocery store goods where the profit-margins are thin enough as it is, if not loss-making.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#48
post #26

All it takes is a loss factor of a few percent, and the entire model breaks down. This is the same reason that long-range RFID (UHF RFID) never worked for cashierless checkout too. You couldn't ensure 100% coverage. Some tags just couldn't be read -- either due to adversarial tactics (eg. shielding with your body) or material properties (eg. metal) -- and the engineering countermeasures to overcome these challenges m…

I have seen supermarket chains do away with automated checkout (Jewel which parent company is Albertsons) systems because they increased loss factors.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#49
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. You need to have the Amazon Go app installed on your phone, and you scan your phone at what looks like a turnstile to enter the store, from the store's PR videos. Then the store keeps track of what you pick up using computer vision, your phone and various sensors, and charges everything you walk out with to your account. Unless you can avoid the requirement to load an app and scan it to get into the store, walki…

What about using worthless phones and masks? For under $5 I can get an Android or a dozen of them, load them up with this app, and be good to go. Need a credit card? No trouble, get a prepaid card for $1.95 at the corner store, load 5 dollars on it, auth it with the Amazon account, and pull $4.99 off it. Then go get some steaks on the house!

There's nobody guarding the doors at the average grocery store. You can walk in and walk out with a steak without anyone stopping you, and without having to buy prepaid debit cards and make online accounts in advance. Far fewer tracks to cover. They also don't have every square inch of the store covered in face-detecting cameras, like Amazon's store, making pretty much anywhere else a better target once you're set on shoplifting. A grocery store probably won't even notice the missing steak, where the Amazon store will have timestamped logs of every unpaid product leaving the store and video of it happening to pass on to authorities.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#50
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about using worthless phones and masks? For under $5 I can get an Android or a dozen of them, load them up with this app, and be good to go. Need a credit card? No trouble, get a prepaid card for $1.95 at the corner store, load 5 dollars on it, auth it with the Amazon account, and pull $4.99 off it. Then go get some steaks on the house!

There's nobody guarding the doors at the average grocery store. You can walk in and walk out with a steak without anyone stopping you, and without having to buy prepaid debit cards and make online accounts in advance. Far fewer tracks to cover. They also don't have every square inch of the store covered in face-detecting cameras, like Amazon's store, making pretty much anywhere else a better target once you're set on…

Wow, you are unfamiliar with retail. Sure, you can probably steal small things, but repeatedly stealing larger objects (book size and above) is generally a pain in the ass. Hence why Costco & Sams Club make better targets than average stores, its much easier to throw something in the cart of high value and slip it by.

Booster bags will be a major issue for Amazon's stores if they ever launch this.

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