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Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

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Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#31
Anecdotally I've heard that the store oftentimes works fine in high-traffic situations. But if my memory of my time at Amazon serves right, the "P99 performance" of this store should be as good as the "mean performance", which is probably where they're being cautious.

Funny how high-availability constraints can make for ominous headlines like this.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#32
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They realize that amazon now measures the height of each customer, also has a miniature drone following them around and each floor tile measure the weight of the people for that extra data point, oh and some have employees disguised as customers whom help the system when in doubt.

Weight belts, got it.

and platform shoes.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#33
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And once they hear Amazon can't track a lot of people moving quickly... A lot of people will decide to start moving quickly.

I can already foresee a dozen people showing up in zebra-striped hoodies to see what happens when they shop together.

Amazon will counter by convincing third parties to resell their goods on the shelf. Amazon takes their cut of sales, but doesn't chip in on losses or fraud. Oh wait...

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#34

Anecdotally I've heard that the store oftentimes works fine in high-traffic situations. But if my memory of my time at Amazon serves right, the "P99 performance" of this store should be as good as the "mean performance", which is probably where they're being cautious. Funny how high-availability constraints can make for ominous headlines like this.

I don't think the headline is ominous. It is not like Amazon is delivering a regulatory project that has real deadlines. They set their own deadline and made a decision to adjust it. They are also creating the first of its kind so kinds are to be expected right?

I don't find the headline positive or negative, I find it to the point and succinct.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#35

Anecdotally I've heard that the store oftentimes works fine in high-traffic situations. But if my memory of my time at Amazon serves right, the "P99 performance" of this store should be as good as the "mean performance", which is probably where they're being cautious. Funny how high-availability constraints can make for ominous headlines like this.

I don't think the headline is ominous. It is not like Amazon is delivering a regulatory project that has real deadlines. They set their own deadline and made a decision to adjust it. They are also creating the first of its kind so kinds are to be expected right? I don't find the headline positive or negative, I find it to the point and succinct.

You're right. I think I was thinking of The Verge's less tactful headline:

Headline: "Amazon’s cashier-free store reportedly breaks if more than 20 people are in it" Subtitle: "So it’s being delayed" Lead-in: "Amazon’s first cashier-free convenience store was supposed to open to the public early this year, but apparently some big technology issues have the launch on hold."

The Verge's article is a hot-take derivative of the WSJ article. My criticism was misplaced.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#36

People interested might also enjoy the first, automated store: SmartMart. Made in the Windows NT days. We got one out here. http://www.smartmartinc.com

How is Smart Mart? Their website is quite sparse.

I haven't been there in a long time. The founder struggled to convince people to deploy them as the upfront cost with robotics and tech was many times a regular, convenience store. Basically what it is. The majority of store owners would rather pay less money to exploit people with dead end jobs and deal with the shrink from theft. Definitely not a growth business but he's been opening more and more over time.

It was an old interface that wasn't as good as modern self-checkouts at grocery stores. Predated them, though, automating the whole process. You drive up to a fuel pump looking thing, tell it what you want, pay it, the equipment gets the right stuff, and it brings it to you somehow. The only people necessary are those that stock it. Probably just one or two doing a full shift on busy days with a part time one on slower ones. Pretty amazing given big companies were bragging about rolling out self-checkouts that just automated a register when he had people automated a whole store many years before.

Note: Guy's name is Michael Rivalto. He's a VC that my brothers told me. Family friend that used to occasionally take them to school in his supercars. Lasting impression there haha.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#38
post #26

All it takes is a loss factor of a few percent, and the entire model breaks down. This is the same reason that long-range RFID (UHF RFID) never worked for cashierless checkout too. You couldn't ensure 100% coverage. Some tags just couldn't be read -- either due to adversarial tactics (eg. shielding with your body) or material properties (eg. metal) -- and the engineering countermeasures to overcome these challenges m…

i imagine any such store has a ridiculous amount of surveillance with probably a membership model like costco with scanning so they know who you are when you enter the store. more than do-able these days.

i honestly don't want amazon to continue to get bigger it's already big enough as far as i am concerned, but that's not how big business works. consolidation is the way and the government does little to discourage it and allow smaller players and more diversity.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. You need to have the Amazon Go app installed on your phone, and you scan your phone at what looks like a turnstile to enter the store, from the store's PR videos. Then the store keeps track of what you pick up using computer vision, your phone and various sensors, and charges everything you walk out with to your account. Unless you can avoid the requirement to load an app and scan it to get into the store, walki…

So children are not allowed in the store? What's stopping someone from just stuffing their kid full of high end goods and asking them to wait in the car?

Everyone entering the store has to be scanned in. A parent could bring a child in, but they are scanned in on the parent's account. Similar to how at some offices, visitors are scanned in using the employee's badge. At least, that is my understanding of how it works.

Re: Amazon Delays Opening of Cashierless Store to Work Out Kinks

#40
This article is fact free. At peak times, on a daily basis, the store handles a far higher volume than this.

There is, of course, a constant drive to push accuracy up, that's the Amazon way.

The delay is for other reasons - even with a throwaway I'm not going to say what

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