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Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

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Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#161

Post by protomyth »

Velox wrote: post #91

This thread is great. Whenever H-1B threads come up on HN, I prepare for the onslaught of what can only be described as hatred. It's the view of many people on this site that all H-1B holders are "cheaters" of the system, and they don't deserve to get a job in the US. As a former H-1B holder, the threads always made me feel guilty, and feel bad about wanting to work for a well regarded, successful company. It's nice,…

I really don't think any of the "blame" is about the person holding an H-1B. They made an economic choice for themselves that is logical and profitable. Trying to live a better life is a good thing.

I have an extreme hatred for the companies that use H-1Bs as body shops to replace American workers. It is definitely not in the spirit or stated goal of the law, and most through trickery skirt the letter of the law. Those people and the managers who hire those companies are scum.

Immigration is a part of the US (well, expect for where I'm typing this, but that's a different story). I believe a lot of rural American has been mischaracterized by the news. Farm country knows a tad bit about immigration. The problem is trickery by body shops which basically gives lie to to the whole STEM shortage, and the worry that folks we are bringing here aren't looking for a better life and actively are seeking to harm. This second point would not apply to almost all H-1Bs.

We need to change how H-1Bs work so that we are getting people that we don't have. This should be at a premium price for those workers (after all, if you have skills not available in the US, then you should be paid for it). I still say a minimum salary requirement of $90,000 for any STEM worker on an H-1B would correct a lot of the problems in the system.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#162

Post by everybodyknows »

Retric wrote: post #125
Zelmor wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are acting in their own best interest and rationalize away the cognitive dissonance.

Not really, land and culture is not fungible. Having say a minimally corrupt judicial system is the kind of thing you risk with unlimited migration. I also don't believe in totally free markets. A flat 10% import terrif on ALL goods and services promotes home grown capital intensive industry where appropriate. Sparking long term growth, while allowing counties to import and export goods where appropriate.

Yes, the common culture is a country's most precious possession. But H-1B immigrants on the whole are supportive, not corrosive to American culture. They work hard and value education. Any native-born American (like myself) who has known second-generation Chinese- or Indian-Americans has seen what good citizens on the whole they are and would be happy to have them as neighbors.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#163

Post by refurb »

FesterCluck wrote: post #7

I've personally witnessed the hiring of a contractor from India at a small development company simply to save on funds. There were plenty of skilled workers in our pool to fill the position, the owner simply didn't want to pay the price. Weeks into his employment the developer came to me and asked if there was anyone he could report work complaints to. I gave him contact information for the state's employment agency.…

It took another week before I realized that he needed to be informed that the state agency protects him whether he's a citizen or not

Hmmm... that gives me an idea. Maybe the gov't should clearly lay out protections for foreign workers up to and including preserving their work visa even if their original employer is found to be breaking the law?

That would provide some serious incentive for sponsor companies to keep their nose clean if they realized that the the folks they bring over can get them busted and still stay in the country.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#164

Post by virtuabhi »

bdittmer wrote: post #152
virtuabhi wrote: post #142

In the threads where we discuss H1B visa holders taking American jobs, can we also consider that American companies are selling their products in countries from where H1B workers come from? Google's Android biggest growth region is India. Why shouldn't then Indians work in Google? Maybe Google should move its headquarters from MV to Bangalore. Alphabet can remain in US. Or another US company, lets say Pepsi, outsourc…

I'm not really sure what triggered you in this article. This is fraud...it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

Well, my comment was on the comment section of any H1B story. The comment section on HN or the news website looks like a "safe space" where people angry at H1B can release their vent up anger and frustration. The comments almost always have nothing to do with actual content of the story but everything about hatred and protectionism.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#165

Post by pm90 »

jackgolding wrote: post #79
toyg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever people moan about enforcement of white-collar-crime laws, I can't help but think about the last scene in The Wolf of Wall Street: after a short stint in prison, DiCaprio's scummy businessman is still rich and admired, while the FBI guy who took him down shares a cheap subway ride with other poor, tired and depressed workers. Incentives are wrong all over the place, Reaganism made authorities fundamentally po…

I agree, here's a great quote by Terry Pratchett on how I think the world should feel about these crimes... “but what should we do when the highborn and wealthy take to crime? Indeed, if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger, how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man who breaks the law out of greed?”

I know it is unfair but honestly I can't think of a system with any kind of equality in these circumstances with the unequal distribution of income that we have now. The poor are prosecuted very harshly because there are statistically a LOT more poor than rich and if there was no "stick", it would lead to a breakdown in law and order. While for the rich... you prevent them from causing more damage, but you know that they can't cause chaos in the day to day. At least I believe that was the reasoning until the 2008 disaster.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#166

Post by virtuabhi »

eanzenberg wrote: post #148
virtuabhi wrote: post #142

In the threads where we discuss H1B visa holders taking American jobs, can we also consider that American companies are selling their products in countries from where H1B workers come from? Google's Android biggest growth region is India. Why shouldn't then Indians work in Google? Maybe Google should move its headquarters from MV to Bangalore. Alphabet can remain in US. Or another US company, lets say Pepsi, outsourc…

That's fine, have them open an office in India and hire locally. Ever wonder why they don't on a massive scale?

Yes, I have wondered about that. As I said in the comment, you will see more companies moving out of US if xenophobia and protectionist policies are not contained.

Also, if you are software engineer have you ever wondered why your salary is close to $100k rather than, say $50k? Think about this. It might be due to the fact that even after being located in US, your company can sell its good and services all around the world.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#167

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

eanzenberg wrote: post #148
virtuabhi wrote: post #142

In the threads where we discuss H1B visa holders taking American jobs, can we also consider that American companies are selling their products in countries from where H1B workers come from? Google's Android biggest growth region is India. Why shouldn't then Indians work in Google? Maybe Google should move its headquarters from MV to Bangalore. Alphabet can remain in US. Or another US company, lets say Pepsi, outsourc…

That's fine, have them open an office in India and hire locally. Ever wonder why they don't on a massive scale?

> That's fine, have them open an office in India and hire locally. Ever wonder why they don't on a massive scale?

You're clearly unaware of the vast number of development offices in India and China that even rather pedestrian businesses have opened.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#168

Post by pm90 »

virtuabhi wrote: post #164
bdittmer wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure what triggered you in this article. This is fraud...it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

Well, my comment was on the comment section of any H1B story. The comment section on HN or the news website looks like a "safe space" where people angry at H1B can release their vent up anger and frustration. The comments almost always have nothing to do with actual content of the story but everything about hatred and protectionism.

Yeah personally I wouldn't get involved in it, even though its incredibly xenophobic, even from people who you would otherwise respect. It's much like the hatred so many Americans have against "Illegals" taking all their good jobs and getting all the benefits while not working at all. These kinds of straw men are basically the best way for rich Americans to distract their less affluent brethren while they continue to give themselves tremendous tax breaks and stash all their wealth overseas. (Note: I'm not saying all rich Americans are that way e.g. Bill Gates is most certainly not. I'm thinking more along the Koch network).

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#169

Post by everybodyknows »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #107

The problem with H1-B's is what in Spain we call "ni chicha ni limoná" - which means that it is something half-baked or half-way from being A or B. H1-B seems to increase competition among workers, but in fact it does not, because H1-B workers are captive workers. They don't enjoy the same rights as their local counterparts. They can't leave the company and start applying for other jobs. This leads to abuse from busi…

Businesses, the smaller ones run by honest founders, are in a way the most tragic of all the H-1B victims.

Not shielded by layers of middle management, they see with their own eyes the way H-1B really works -- the lies they would have to tell to hire the low-priced labor.

They want to be honest and law-abiding, to be the kind of parents their children can respect.

But business has been unprofitable and is not improving, and tuition, mortgage, taxes are due at the end of the month.

How would any of us act, in their place? The choices are:

1. Hire H-1B, or

2. "The right thing" -- chapter 7 bankruptcy.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#170

Post by School-Cotton »

WalterBright wrote: post #89
School-Cotton wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving immigration aside -- there are order-of-magnitude compensation differences even among white US-citizen programmers. I.e., some are paid 50k a year; some are paid 500k a year. How is it possible for someone to figure out what they're "worth" in this environment?

I'd hazard a guess that a computer professional who was unable to use google to determine a salary range for his education and experience is probably worth at the bottom. The ones I know at the top end (and the $500k figure is low) are well aware of the value they bring to a corporation, and price accordingly.

My point is "education and experience" probably under-specify how much you should be making.

I have a bachelor's degree in mathematics and about four years' experience as a programmer. What's my compensation range?

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