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Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

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Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#141

Post by anjc »

toast0 wrote: post #137
anjc wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was never fair for the US worker that got paid 3x the salary for doing the job in the US instead of overseas ?! By this argument it's unfair that Indian workers get paid more in the US than they do in India, as this is unfair to people who do the job in India for less?

Isn't the basic tenet of fair wages equal pay for equal work? If the work is essentially the same in all locations, it's unfair that the wages aren't the same everywhere. Certainly, the work may not be the same everywhere, and not all workers are providing the same level of work etc. If the worker in India provides the same value to the company as the worker in the US, how is it fair that they are paid differently? T…

Even if you could magically make everywhere have the same cost of living and have the same pool of talent, you're then left with a situation whereby it's cheaper to operate companies in some countries due to proximity of natural resources (production of steel-based products in China, for example, isn't just cheaper because workers are willing to work for less).

You're never going to get equal pay for equal work on a global scale.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#142

Post by virtuabhi »

In the threads where we discuss H1B visa holders taking American jobs, can we also consider that American companies are selling their products in countries from where H1B workers come from?

Google's Android biggest growth region is India. Why shouldn't then Indians work in Google? Maybe Google should move its headquarters from MV to Bangalore. Alphabet can remain in US.

Or another US company, lets say Pepsi, outsources its IT work to an Indian company, Infosys. And everyone in India is drinking Pepsi. Why is it wrong that IT work in Pepsi is done by Infosys? Should India ban Pepsi because Pepsi Inc. has more non-Indians than Indians?

I am not surprised that EU is actively fining US companies like Google and Apple, and China does not allow US companies in the first place. And if xenophobic and protectionist polices continue in US, then I am afraid that countries like India will have to do the same like EU or China.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#143

Post by humanrebar »

witty_username wrote: post #81
mvpu wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about competition limiting, it's about unfair pricing and abuse. It's not fair to replace a local worker with a foreign worker because they're cheaper . And, there are tons and tons of staffing firms who systematically abuse the H1B program - they funnel workers from different countries (especially India), often mistreat them / threaten them / underpay them.

> It's not fair to replace a local worker with a foreign worker because they're cheaper. It's as fair as buying something for cheaper when you can. In fact, it's probably more fair as globalization lifts foreign workers out of poverty. A richer local worker loses while a poorer foreign worker wins and the U.S. overall wins.

"richer"

Being middle class in a third world country and being poor in a poverty-stricken American zip code are different enough that it's not even worth deciding who has it worse.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#144

Post by [deleted] »

virtuabhi wrote: post #142

In the threads where we discuss H1B visa holders taking American jobs, can we also consider that American companies are selling their products in countries from where H1B workers come from? Google's Android biggest growth region is India. Why shouldn't then Indians work in Google? Maybe Google should move its headquarters from MV to Bangalore. Alphabet can remain in US. Or another US company, lets say Pepsi, outsourc…

[deleted]

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#145

Post by toast0 »

anjc wrote: post #141
toast0 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the basic tenet of fair wages equal pay for equal work? If the work is essentially the same in all locations, it's unfair that the wages aren't the same everywhere. Certainly, the work may not be the same everywhere, and not all workers are providing the same level of work etc. If the worker in India provides the same value to the company as the worker in the US, how is it fair that they are paid differently? T…

Even if you could magically make everywhere have the same cost of living and have the same pool of talent, you're then left with a situation whereby it's cheaper to operate companies in some countries due to proximity of natural resources (production of steel-based products in China, for example, isn't just cheaper because workers are willing to work for less). You're never going to get equal pay for equal work on a…

> You're never going to get equal pay for equal work on a global scale.

Sure, but does that mean unequal pay is fair? And if it's unfair, isn't it unfair to both the worker who is paid less, and the worker who is paid more? If the system becomes more fair, workers who were paid more will see a wage decrease, but won't typically be excited to see more fairness.

Maybe I'm just not understanding what you consider to be fair?

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#146

Post by icantdrive55 »

Zelmor wrote: post #71
ComodoHacker wrote: post #41

I wonder why people here praise free competition on a global market as a primary value when they talk about their products and services, but support competition limiting when it comes to the labor market in their own country.

Because they are acting in their own best interest and rationalize away the cognitive dissonance.

The back story of every person who consistently makes more than $200k in the private sector.

It's just hippocracy. It's always disgusted me. I see it in every profession--from the financial to medicine, and the 501C3's. It's gotten worse since going to church is seen as a crime in certain parts of the country.

I have never met a wealthy family that isn't full of it.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#147

Post by patio11 »

School-Cotton wrote: post #45
patio11 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you believe that I took a $30k a year programming job as a legal immigrant in the knowledge that it would require 60+ hour weeks because it was my impression that it was the best option available to me? "I'm clearly not Google material; I can barely get this J2EE app working", "I perceive that I am working uphill against racism in hiring managers", "I owe my sponsor for this job because they treated me fairly",…

Was this in Japan? (I just read the first few sentences of the bio on your blog). If so, how different is 30k USD there from market rates? And what country are you from originally? I wonder if anything is at all different because of differences between Japanese and US culture with respect to discussing compensation, what is typically expected of workers, and so on. (Not trying to poke holes in your story -- just genu…

This was in Japan. I'm from the US. It's market for a 25 year old in Nagoya, but the point is that despite the fact that there were really straightforward ways to get triple that I in fact did not.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#148

Post by eanzenberg »

virtuabhi wrote: post #142

In the threads where we discuss H1B visa holders taking American jobs, can we also consider that American companies are selling their products in countries from where H1B workers come from? Google's Android biggest growth region is India. Why shouldn't then Indians work in Google? Maybe Google should move its headquarters from MV to Bangalore. Alphabet can remain in US. Or another US company, lets say Pepsi, outsourc…

That's fine, have them open an office in India and hire locally. Ever wonder why they don't on a massive scale?

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#149

Post by battlebot »

Panoramix wrote: post #98
anjc wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your own comment contradicts what you're saying: > an increase in the share of migrants in the labour force increases unemployment for those with skills most similar to the migrants in the short to medium term (over a period of 5-10 years), but that immigration has no significant impact on unemployment in the long run (Jean and Jimenez 2010). A period of 10 years is a quarter of a person's working lifetime and is, at…

I'd need to see concrete numbers showing the reason behind those 30-40% unemployed was immigration, rather than other reasons. When an immigrant moves into a country he contributes plenty to the local economy. He needs a haircut, so he goes to the local hairdresser. He needs groceries, so he goes to the local shop. He pays rent, buys a car, furniture, pays taxes, schools, etc etc. This helps a lot of people stay empl…

When an immigrant shows up in the US, they most often immediately sign up for welfare--free food, free clothing, free, free, free. They get section 8 housing subsidies, they put their kids in public schools but pay very little in taxes. They fail to integrate.

The Muslim kids get invited to birthday parties, they never show up. They won't let their kids come over to play, it is just old world nonsense going on. Their religion or whatever won't allow them to attend music classes, so they get special treatment there (wtf?)

Meanwhile, in my kids' school the test scores from a formerly award-winning district have been falling for the past five years due to the effect of uncontrolled immigration mostly from south of the border. On top of that, we've got Muslim kids pushing my son around on the playground, we've got female teachers being threatened by the boys who believe they are superior to women and refusing to be taught by female teachers.

Pardon me if I fail to see the upside to any of this--it is affecting me and the lives of my family NOW and if things get better 10 years from now, the damage is still happening NOW. I would go as far to say that if Americans--and by Americans I don't just mean whites--don't wake up to how they're getting screwed over in every way, it's going to be a very ugly situation later on. Stuff free markets in your ass--this is about the destruction of America from within.

Limit immigration, require English language, no more pandering to the death cult of Islam, no more pandering to non-English speakers, enforce mutual respect for all races, religions, and ethnic backgrounds under the rule of law. Cut welfare to the bone and stop creating the incentives that undermine our communities.

Re: Bay Area professionals indicted for H-1B visa fraud

#150

Post by battlebot »

throwaway_374 wrote: post #95
malloryerik wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably hold a minority opinion, but I wish that the US would take millions of immigrants every year, up to even ten million(!). And people from OECD countries could come automatically as they pleased, ideally like a Schengen Area that extended throughout the whole OECD, with hope of eventually including the entire world.

How would this work in practice? I'm guessing you're from a reasonably financially comfortable background so you don't have to worry about loss of security. What happens in 10 years time when the market only seeks Tensorflow experts with a PhD in AI and you're relegated to flipping burgers or driving ubers which you can't do anyway because robots and so you rely on basic income and lose all sense of worth and purpose…

That happened in Argentina--PhDs driving taxi-cabs in order to survive.
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