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When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

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Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#111

Post by knieveltech »

flukus wrote: post #92
sethherr wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a reasonable example, but doesn't answer the question: what differentiates it? I'd say it's something like "involving people without their consent" - e.g. farting on them. Which includes forcing people to listen to tales of your sexual exploits.

I'd disagree discussing your sexual exploits is harassment either, up to a point. It's harassment when it's clearly unwelcome and directed at a specific individual. So if we sit next to each other and I keep farting even though you don't like it, it's not harassment because it's not directed at you, but if I kept walking over to your area just to fart, that's harassment. I would have thought the distinction would be…

sethherr nails it with consent. Just about anything can be harassment if the critical element of consent is missing.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#112

Post by kmfrk »

donatj wrote: post #11

The story would be a lot more powerful if it were vastly more concise and meandered far less. This reads like an angsty teens livejournal entry, which doesn't do the serious nature of the matter justice.

You seem like a tremendous asshole; why even post something like that?

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#114

Post by nilved »

lkrubner wrote: post #13

I've also run into exactly this tactic: "When I informed the project reviewer and the other fellows that, in fact, I had resigned due to sexual harassment, Dan sent a response which opened with a long, irrelevant, and inaccurate story about how my work was low-quality, my research contribution was minor, etc. " Myself and a business partner had a web startup that we ran from 2002 to 2008. I was the CTO, he was the CE…

It's simple sour grapes or cognitive dissonance.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#115

Post by joshuamorton »

flukus wrote: post #76
joshuamorton wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly is farting inappropriate?

Depends on context, but lifting your leg and letting rip is generally considered inappropriate during a business meeting.

Right, but I'd argue that doing that is also something that could be construed as harassing your coworkers. Perhaps not in the common usage sense, but certainly in the "spitting on someone is assault and grabbing a coworkers ass is sexual harassment" sense.

I wouldn't consider letting out a fart anymore inappropriate than excusing oneself to go to the bathroom, but doing either in a way that you know will disrupt and cause coworkers discomfort is inappropriate and harassing, not because of the act itself, but because of how you handle it.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#116

Post by M_Grey »

belorn wrote: post #105
skystrife wrote: post #78

If this had occurred in the US (and the mentioned confidential conversation did in fact allege sexual misconduct), DJB would be in trouble: > Within the University of Illinois System, ALL employees, unless specifically exempted, are “Responsible Employees” with the responsibility and authority to report sexual misconduct to their university's Title IX Coordinator. The only employees who are exempt from this reporting…

While its different in each country, I know that teachers and counselors can be required by law to personally report such crimes to the police. If I remember right, this is true for Sweden, which would in this case result in a police report and then no further actions or communications from the university (in order to allow the police to do a proper investigation without interference). If it is a student that is accu…

There's also a reasonable Tarasoff case here, given Jacob's extensive and ongoing history.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#117

Post by DashRattlesnake »

pseudalopex wrote: post #94
belovedeagle wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, the emails seem very credible and do not in any way shake my confidence that the entire story is fabricated. The accuser refuses, when asked, to put any accusations into a formal statement, instead relying on making blog posts such as the this. To me that sounds very much like (a) someone deliberately making false accusations and/or (b) someone in need of help for mental illness. I can think of no ot…

Bernstein told the author not to mention their prior conversation in his complaint. The author found this suspicious and filed a complaint with the department secretary instead. You know one thing about the author's mental health: he had panic attacks during a very stressful time in his life. Any psychologist can tell you that this has no bearing on someone's truthfulness. Continuing to speculate about his mental hea…

> Bernstein told the author not to mention their prior conversation in his complaint.

No, he wanted to the author to restate his complete complaint, rather than merely reference previous confidential statements.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#118

Post by belorn »

M_Grey wrote: post #116
belorn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While its different in each country, I know that teachers and counselors can be required by law to personally report such crimes to the police. If I remember right, this is true for Sweden, which would in this case result in a police report and then no further actions or communications from the university (in order to allow the police to do a proper investigation without interference). If it is a student that is accu…

There's also a reasonable Tarasoff case here, given Jacob's extensive and ongoing history.

I know that education institutes in Sweden sometimes move students if they consider that the person is continuing disruption the education, through as with all of this, there need to be documentation that they tried multiple methods to correct the situation and still failed. Moving students is seen as a last-attempt.

In the case of Jacob, we don't see any of those actions. No police report or investigation. No claim that he is continuing acting disruptive to the university, nor that they have tried and failed to correct that behavior. Basically no events or documented actions of jacob after the point he left the tor project.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#119

Post by dang »

busterarm wrote: post #38
donatj wrote: post #11

The story would be a lot more powerful if it were vastly more concise and meandered far less. This reads like an angsty teens livejournal entry, which doesn't do the serious nature of the matter justice.

Angst? Check. Drama? Check. Green hair? Check. Leaking details of private in-confidence conversations to the public? Check. Not respectfully working with another person to resolve a dispute when that person seems to be making a best-effort. Check. The checkboxes on my "Do Not Associate With" list keep tallying up.

Please don't comment like this here.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#120

Post by hbogert »

syswsi wrote: post #50

Is this a common thing in the infosec industry? Personally I have known two people who were sexually harassed who work in security. I've also hung out with some and they do seem to have an unrealistic view on the opposite sex. Some examples I've found of documented cases: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/female-hackers-st... https://www.the-parallax.com/2015/10/26/how-myth-of-meritocr...

> Is this a common thing in the ~infosec industry~ black community? Personally I have known two people who were sexually harassed who work in ~security~ the black community. I've also hung out with some and they do seem to have an unrealistic view on the opposite sex.

If you think I have a problem with afro-americans, you have a problem with getting the point

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