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When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

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Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#31

Post by aslkdfjasldkf »

belovedeagle wrote: post #20
stale2002 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... Someone was literally assaulted with drugs and your response is to call them mentally ill?

You can't possibly believe that ridiculous story? That he tried to poison someone with eye drops , and that the only evidence for this is that while nothing happened at the time, the eye in question has felt irritated ever since?! I don't even know how to respond! I'm not an expert on mental health so I don't want to go claiming this is due to one mental health issue or another, but I was brought up to believe that s…

These accusations may be true and they may not be. Whether or not they are is something you (and I) are in no position to offer an opinion on. What is unacceptable, however, is to demean someone telling a personal story like this. FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#32

Post by hawkice »

brl wrote: post #12
pfarnsworth wrote: post #4

Wow this blog post makes djb sound like such a scumbag. The idea that he would ask people to consider the allegations "false" is absurd (there's a difference between presuming innocence vs presuming the the allegations are false). I would love to hear his side of the story.

> I would love to hear his side of the story. Some of his side of the story has been told in the leaked emails: https://www.hdevalence.ca/etc/34de2f3c2a48f7da/EmAiLs.txt

tl;dr DJB was approached with a complaint, and thought it was a situation where he would give advice and his counterparty expected he would maintain his confidence. After he heard about the frustration the complainant was experiencing, asked the person to file a formal complaint, or at least send a self-contained email (explicitly acknowledged as not confidential) that he could use to move forward, in order to not break that confidence.

Seems that's where things broke down. There's another complaint related to Tanja that seems separate (he says that she urged him to not file a complaint immediately), but that's orthogonal to DJB's side of this, I think.

EDIT: It seems, from context, that the complainant wanted the confidence revoked, and everything put on the record (not unreasonable). But DJB doesn't _keep_ records of confidential things -- hence his insistence that they start from the beginning.

EDIT2: I'm trying to summarize "What is DJB's side of this (as communicated in the linked emails)?" not the whole scenario. I don't know anything about this situation directly.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#33

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

awesomepantsm wrote: post #18
poikniok wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't we wait to hear Dan's side of the story before we get out the pitchforks just yet?

The implication of the article is that Dan has had more than 12 weeks to make his side of the story known, and has chosen not to. What's Dan's side of the story going to be that would change your mind about raising pitchforks? That actually Jacob wasn't fired for sexual harassment from a previous job?

Isn't the allegation he was forced/kicked out of two positions -- kink.com and TOR?

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#34

Post by hartator »

belovedeagle wrote: post #28
hartator wrote: post #26

His wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum Doesn't seem to be the first time he has been accused publicly of sexual abuses. Very far from that.

If you throw enough shit at a wall, eventually some of it will stick. That's exactly the strategy being used here.

I would argue there is no smoke without fire. The wikipedia section about his sexual abuses is citing close to 30 sources.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#35

Post by M_Grey »

brl wrote: post #12
pfarnsworth wrote: post #4

Wow this blog post makes djb sound like such a scumbag. The idea that he would ask people to consider the allegations "false" is absurd (there's a difference between presuming innocence vs presuming the the allegations are false). I would love to hear his side of the story.

> I would love to hear his side of the story. Some of his side of the story has been told in the leaked emails: https://www.hdevalence.ca/etc/34de2f3c2a48f7da/EmAiLs.txt

That's pretty disgusting, and the kind of "sneaky" you'd expect from an overly precocious child. Then again, it actually does match the combination of passive aggression and thwarted control-freak that I've come to expect from academia.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#36

Post by flukus »

malikNF wrote: post #29
flukus wrote: post #14

This sort of stuff, character assassination based on hearsay, used to be considered tabloid journalism, something no one with half a brain would read. Now it get's up voted every time on HN.

I am one of the people who upvoted this article. How else do you want people to bring problems out in to the open? The author of the article used their real name, made several references to other people and told their side of the story. Now its up to the accused to tell their side of the story. Even take legal action if the story is untrue. For an industry trying to get more females to take part in it, sentiments lik…

> For an industry trying to get more females to take part in it, sentiments like this against possible victims is not what we should hold.

I'd rather an industry with 0 women than one where mere allegations (let's not pretend there haven't been some rather high profile false allegations) are career ending.

On balance this guy does sound like a creep, but I don't think issue's like this should be tackled in public with people named.

The rape allegations in particular, are a matter for the police and should be prosecuted.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#37

Post by M_Grey »

donatj wrote: post #11

The story would be a lot more powerful if it were vastly more concise and meandered far less. This reads like an angsty teens livejournal entry, which doesn't do the serious nature of the matter justice.

I have to ask, do you have anything to say regarding the content, or just the style? You seem so passionate about that content, but you never address it, just lament that it was hard done by.

That strikes me as either myopic, or dishonest.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#38

Post by busterarm »

donatj wrote: post #11

The story would be a lot more powerful if it were vastly more concise and meandered far less. This reads like an angsty teens livejournal entry, which doesn't do the serious nature of the matter justice.

Angst? Check. Drama? Check. Green hair? Check. Leaking details of private in-confidence conversations to the public? Check. Not respectfully working with another person to resolve a dispute when that person seems to be making a best-effort. Check.

The checkboxes on my "Do Not Associate With" list keep tallying up.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#39

Post by busterarm »

stale2002 wrote: post #19
flukus wrote: post #14

This sort of stuff, character assassination based on hearsay, used to be considered tabloid journalism, something no one with half a brain would read. Now it get's up voted every time on HN.

Just wait man. Many other people are about to come forward if even a little bit of this is true. People in this thread have ALREADY started to back up the claims.

It's been nearly a year already since the ball got rolling on this.

Re: When ‘he’ll be kept on payroll, somewhere’ is where you are

#40

Post by belovedeagle »

pseudalopex wrote: post #21
belovedeagle wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when are targets of blatant and long-standing smear campaigns given the chance to tell "their side of the story", and what good would it do if they were, since there is no story of which they could tell their side? You've fallen right into the trap of thinking there is a story which needs to be told, rather than questioning from the beginning, "where is the evidence for any of this?" What's incredibly sad is it…

The author of the article published what he claims were emails sent by Bernstein. If the entire story is fabricated, Bernstein's side is "I never sent those emails".

On the contrary, the emails seem very credible and do not in any way shake my confidence that the entire story is fabricated. The accuser refuses, when asked, to put any accusations into a formal statement, instead relying on making blog posts such as the this. To me that sounds very much like (a) someone deliberately making false accusations and/or (b) someone in need of help for mental illness. I can think of no other reason not to put one's concerns in writing at the first opportunity; can you shed any light on that decision?
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