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Tesla to raise $1B

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Re: Tesla to raise $1B

#181

Post by softawre »

dilemma wrote: post #126
grizzles wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was an exercise in creative problem solving. I'd query the data to find out where on the line the most (costly x incidence) problems were occurring and then devise a solution. If a worker was scratching the paint every time he put his tool down the secure a fastener, we'd get a heavy rubber guard fabricated, change his man assignment and have him put down the guard before he did his little peice, or even better ch…

>Don't even get me started on labor. :) Wow.

Well, programmers do the same thing.

Blah blah make better software blah blah world makes better idiots.

Re: Tesla to raise $1B

#182

Post by mikeash »

hackuser wrote: post #163
mikeash wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's prospects today aren't noticeably different from how they were on November 8th, 2016, so trying to tie it in to Trump doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me.

> Tesla's prospects today aren't noticeably different from how they were on November 8th, 2016 I think the evidence strongly says otherwise: Tesla closing stock price, a quantitative measure of the market's view of their prospects and actual financing for those prospects: I'll pull out a few from around Election Day, as a more representative sample. But for better data than the excerpts below, go here and look at the…

I don't recall Musk being a Trump supporter. He is working with Trump, but that is not the same thing. He has stated that he thinks it's better if the President has good people advising him, regardless of how one thinks of their policies.

TSLA is really volatile. The market cap is absurdly larger than the company's actual assets, meaning investors are banking on massive future growth. Going from $195 to $256 isn't that big of a change IMO. Your links are either irrelevant (e.g. talking infrastructure with Trump doesn't equate to support) or speculative.

Re: Tesla to raise $1B

#183

Post by tmsldd »

Nothing wrong with Tesla raising money, after all they basically burn it to sustain the company.. The curios part is that it looks so few.. 1 B isn't a really much.

Re: Tesla to raise $1B

#184

Post by bwilliams18 »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #169
kumarski wrote: post #160

Uber as a ponzi scheme of ambition 1/ Basic premise was they keep highlighting their entry into larger and larger markets and so investors keep ponying up $ for the ambition. 2/ First, it was taxis 3/ Then, it was taxis + logistics 4/ Then taxis, logistics, vehicle ownership 5/ Then taxis, logistics, vehicle ownership, autonomous 6/ Then taxis, logistics, vehicle ownership, autonomous, trucking 7 / Then taxis, logist…

Musk has stated that his ambition is in colonizing Mars. To achieve that he's building the companies to make it a profitable endeavor. When he succeeds he will have built a path for others to follow to also have a commercially viable option to explore space. Travis on the other hand is apparently running a fraternity that spies on you. About the worst of the worst coming out of Uber.

Don't shit on fraternities, they're not all that bad.

Re: Tesla to raise $1B

#185

Post by bwilliams18 »

idiot_stick wrote: post #47
salimmadjd wrote: post #5

Tesla is basically taking on a loan in form of a convertible notes. probably much smarter to distribute their lender among multiple entities than one giant bank that would have leverage on them. Also, it looks like Tesla would use a portion of the money to inflate their share prices via a small buyback. The after market trading so far make this strategy look successful. So at the end of a day: Tesla is raising capita…

> probably much smarter to distribute their lender among multiple entities than one giant bank that would have leverage on them. A less charitable reading is that no single lender wanted to write the debt. A billion isn't substantial...

I've heard just such rumblings from large banks who specialize in auto loans.

Re: Tesla to raise $1B

#186

Post by jonknee »

skygnite wrote: post #129
Cookingboy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Supply Chain is not that big a deal to fix. They will sort out there problems there, they just imo need a few vets from a traditional car company. Tesla have been trying to and they are still running into many problems, many industry veteran hires and tens of thousands of cars sold later. I have talked to many people who have worked/work in production as well, and unfortunately they don't share with you the same opt…

Isn't Elon a sort of supply chain pariah at this point though? His learnings from SpaceX and Tesla so far probably make him one of the most experienced people in modern supply chains.

Pariah is not the word you're looking for, but either way I'd say the answer is certainly not. Making a few very expensive rockets and luxury cars is not anything like mass producing vehicles on a scale like VW/Toyota/GM/Ford/etc.

I'd say a company like Foxconn is probably a much better example. They are able to mass produce millions of widgets with astonishingly few defects and even begin doing it in secret. Very impressive logistics. If just one component of the iPhone isn't ready the whole line grinds to a halt.

Re: Tesla to raise $1B

#187

Post by jonknee »

nyxtom wrote: post #162
Cookingboy wrote: post #6

As an investor of Tesla who bought into Elon's vision I've been getting more and more nervous about how the company is actually run at this point. A modern car company is as much of a production and supply chain company as it's a product and tech company. I get the feeling that due to Tesla being cutting edge in the tech department it led to all the supply chain/production problems being treated as if they are speed…

It's important to note that the rollout of the Model 3, along with other Tesla vehicles, is done in spite of many laws that are explicitly aimed at preventing the sale of Tesla vehicles. Many states completely hamstring the ability to sell EV cars directly and some states are downright hostile towards Tesla. Additionally, one has to consider the current administration's position on fuel economy standards and any comp…

> Many states completely hamstring the ability to sell EV cars directly and some states are downright hostile towards Tesla.

This has nothing to do with EVs, it has to do with Tesla wanting to sell cars differently than anyone else sells cars. If Tesla wanted to do a dealer model they could certainly give it a go and be treated no differently than any other auto maker.

Re: Tesla to raise $1B

#188

Post by nyxtom »

matthewowen wrote: post #166
nyxtom wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to note that the rollout of the Model 3, along with other Tesla vehicles, is done in spite of many laws that are explicitly aimed at preventing the sale of Tesla vehicles. Many states completely hamstring the ability to sell EV cars directly and some states are downright hostile towards Tesla. Additionally, one has to consider the current administration's position on fuel economy standards and any comp…

Is there any Tesla vehicle that doesn't have a waiting list? I'm not disputing that some of the rules around auto sales are problematic, but it seems to me like the limiter on Tesla's ability to sell cars is its ability to produce them.

Hmm that is true. It's probably been said before, but the Model X definitely made things a lot more difficult to get to a rollout of the model 3.

"I'm not sure anyone should have made this car," he said at a press conference just hours before the first Model Xs were delivered to VIP customers."

""We probably should have just [modified the Model S]," he added. "There are so many more features and difficult to build parts on [the Model X] than it is necessary for us to sell the cars.""

Re: Tesla to raise $1B

#189

Post by jonknee »

btilly wrote: post #112
twblalock wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bolt is GM's first practical EV. If it succeeds, GM could easily choose to compete in the luxury EV market against Tesla. If GM decided to do this, it would have many advantages over Tesla: a huge dealership and service network, lots of suppliers, easy financing, and all of the other perks you get when you buy a "normal" car from an established company.

Tesla aims to have razor thin margins for the thing that they actually produce. So their lack of dealers who supply an automatic mark-up is something that they cite as a strength, not a weakness. The thing that Tesla is producing, however, is really expensive to build right now. The cost curves are great for it to come down, but until they do they are in the ironic business of selling expensive things with thin margi…

> So their lack of dealers who supply an automatic mark-up is something that they cite as a strength, not a weakness.

They don't have an automatic mark-up, but car dealers also operate on razor thin margins (the real money is in service and trade ins). However dealers pay their own rent and even spend money advertising. Tesla is on the hook for all of its dealerships, a significant cost that its competitors don't have. In the end I don't think it's such a game changer. It makes sense for Tesla, but doesn't magically make things cheaper.

Re: Tesla to raise $1B

#190

Post by rebootthesystem »

Cookingboy wrote: post #6

As an investor of Tesla who bought into Elon's vision I've been getting more and more nervous about how the company is actually run at this point. A modern car company is as much of a production and supply chain company as it's a product and tech company. I get the feeling that due to Tesla being cutting edge in the tech department it led to all the supply chain/production problems being treated as if they are speed…

I read this book [1] back in the '90's. An amazing read about the world of auto manufacturing.

Regarding Tesla, surely I am not the only one waiting for competition. I think the problem Tesla has is that when the giants awake they will outclass them at nearly every level.

It's like thinking you are doing great in your open water swim until the triathletes leave you in their wake. Surely companies who have been honing their skills and optimizing their design, engineering, manufacturing, distribution and support over decades will have non-trivial advantages over Tesla.

The way I see it, building an electric car is significantly simpler than one with an internal combustion engine. All you have to do to see this is take an accounting of the thousands of parts and many fluids you leave out. The design, manufacturing, supply chain, distribution and service costs of having another 1,000 to 2,000 parts in a car are monumental. Any company that knows how to deliver quality, reliable and reasonably priced internal combustion cars will have a laugh delivering electrics at scale.

They know how to do this today. They are all waiting for the same thing: Cheaper, lighter, better energy storage. Recent developments might indicate this could be just a few years out.

Tesla has a problem: It has to achieve scale before that moment in time. Today choices are few and Tesla might have an advantage with Model 3 (if it ships on time and has no problems). In some respects they are the only game in town (range). The minute that changes people are going to flock to other manufacturers.

[1] https://goo.gl/Drhc1Z

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