Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 218 posts

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#71

Post by simonh »

komali2 wrote: post #59

I notice this theme again and again in every "change yourself" book, show, class, lecture. Be it weight loss, improving mental health, curing addiction, becoming a better writer/photographer/programmer, the theme all comes down to a battle against yourself. Fighting the desire to snack, fighting the desire to lay on the couch instead of going to the gym, fighting the desire to veg and watch netflix instead of watchin…

The more I think about it and learn about the functioning of the brain, the less I believe in the unitary 'self'. I once read the suggestion that what we think of as the 'self' is really just the brain's public relations department.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#72

Post by kleiba »

stevecalifornia wrote: post #44
kleiba wrote: post #34

They do not use their smart phones in the presence of others.

On the timeline of humanity, our pocket computers are brand-new. It will likely be a couple of decades before we sort out the social norms of using them. However, I think that we will fall towards using these devices constantly in all social settings because the young people growing up won't have the nostalgia of time before smartphones-- there was never a time where you and your friends sat at a table and talked com…

But it could also swing the other way: after the novelty wears off people might find it more respectful to pay attention to whoever you're sharing the table with in that coffee shop. There have always been ways to momentarily withdraw from your company and preoccupy yourself with something personal, but still you don't see people suddenly pulling out a book or a newspaper and read a couple of paragraphs (to give a flawed analogy).

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#73

Post by nybblet »

vlunkr wrote: post #67
nybblet wrote: post #58

I'm struck by how much this echoes Confucius and the Analects and how they define the so-called gentleman or noble man (not to be confused with nobleman, and translation is hard). Given how unlikely it is that Chekhov had exposure to either, it's incredible to observe the universality of these qualities considered admirable. If people haven't, do recommend checking out The Analects! Caveat: there are quite a few exce…

As well as Christianity. (and maybe 90% of religions?)

At a certain point, sure. There is, I suspect, an execution difference (which does not at all create mutual exclusivity) though. Have you read The Analects, out of curiosity? If so, you know what I mean. If not, by all means please check it out! It's a short read, unlike any of the Bible, Torah, or Quran ;)

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#74

Post by zaccus »

Boothroid wrote: post #54
unoti wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The items on that list would be natural byproducts of simple humility, serenity of the mind, and the pursuit of excellence. These things are their own reward.

Surely. But one might argue that spending your time pondering how to make yourself 'cultured' is a nauseatingly bourgeois activity, ripe for satire when compared with the harder realities of life for the less well privileged.

Yeah it's bourgeois, so what? I've been poor and I've been not poor. Not poor is better, trust me. Being not poor and cultured is way better.

There are few things more annoyingly bourgeois than fetishizing poverty.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#75

Post by zaccus »

Boothroid wrote: post #51
pdog wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry. Chekhov's advice is only meant for talented people.

Case in point: I'm better than you attitude. So cultured!

And you being so proud of how uncultured you are is different how?

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#76

Post by sillypog »

gmarx wrote: post #30

This letter appears to be a drawn out detailed set of insults to his older brother. Maybe cultured isn't the best translation. Is this what we in the US would have called "classy" back then?

I agree. I got a few items into the list and got the sense that a joke was being played. I wonder if the original poster had that sense too and was in on the joke?

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#77

Post by stevecalifornia »

kbenson wrote: post #60
stevecalifornia wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the timeline of humanity, our pocket computers are brand-new. It will likely be a couple of decades before we sort out the social norms of using them. However, I think that we will fall towards using these devices constantly in all social settings because the young people growing up won't have the nostalgia of time before smartphones-- there was never a time where you and your friends sat at a table and talked com…

It's also possible the current physical manifestations of these devices will change quite a bit in the near future. I imagine in 20 years of less we'll mostly be using some eye based (glasses, lenses, whatever) display with AR and gesture control.(likely with a gesture "shorthand" for AR control with limited movement for when you don't want to wave your hand in front of you). At that point, it will be both much more…

Thats an intriguing prediction of the future.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#78

Post by jdmichal »

jerf wrote: post #37
gmarx wrote: post #30

This letter appears to be a drawn out detailed set of insults to his older brother. Maybe cultured isn't the best translation. Is this what we in the US would have called "classy" back then?

Classiness does not preclude being insulting. It simply calls for a higher degree of skill in the insulting. History is full of classy insults. Diplomacy is nearly made of them. http://allowe.com/laughs/book/When%20Insults%20Had%20Class.h... - just a quick hit on "classy insults" that seems to fit what I'm saying here.

There's also something to be said for long-form writing with snail mail enabling this. A very quick wit is required to make such insults in real time, as opposed to behind a pen with a day or two of thought.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#79

Post by burkaman »

gmarx wrote: post #30

This letter appears to be a drawn out detailed set of insults to his older brother. Maybe cultured isn't the best translation. Is this what we in the US would have called "classy" back then?

I might say "gentle criticism" rather than insults, but the beginning and end of the letter do make it clear that he is specifically advising his brother: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6408/6408-h/6408-h.htm#link2H...

> You have only one failing, and the falseness of your position, and your unhappiness and your catarrh of the bowels are all due to it. That is your utter lack of culture.

>You must drop your vanity, you are not a child ... you will soon be thirty. It is time! I expect you.... We all expect you.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#80

Post by Boothroid »

zaccus wrote: post #74
Boothroid wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely. But one might argue that spending your time pondering how to make yourself 'cultured' is a nauseatingly bourgeois activity, ripe for satire when compared with the harder realities of life for the less well privileged.

Yeah it's bourgeois, so what? I've been poor and I've been not poor. Not poor is better, trust me. Being not poor and cultured is way better. There are few things more annoyingly bourgeois than fetishizing poverty.

You misrepresent me by saying I fetishised poverty. I did nothing of the sort. I merely said that a state of smug complacency is risible. Or are the 'cultured' so full of pomposity that mockery is considered threatening? That seems like narcissism to me.
Post reply on HN