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Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

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Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#21

Post by siberianbear »

eternalban wrote: post #12
siberianbear wrote: post #2

I am an American living in Russia. When I was studying Russian I read a number of Chekhov's short stories and got a feel for who he was. I later came across one of his quotes: "В человеке должно быть все прекрасно: и лицо, и одежда, и душа, и мысли" (Everything in a person should be excellent: his face, his clothes, his soul and his ideas). I sometimes discussed this phrase with Russians, eventually coming to be beli…

> I personally saw it and even touched his nose. Did it work?

Well, there's no possiblity of doing A/B testing. I can't go back and live an alternate life where I didn't touch his nose. So there's no way to know. But I'm enjoying my life, and I'm happy with the life in which I did touch his nose.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#22

Post by johan_larson »

I suspect a subtle mistranslation here. Chekhov seems to be talking about decent people, or maybe good people, not cultured ones.

In English, it is quite possible to be cultured but bad. You know all kinds of stuff about literature, music, art, history and science (and therefore you are cultured) but you cheat on your wife and your taxes (and are therefore bad).

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#23

Post by andrewmcwatters »

kordless wrote: post #15
Boothroid wrote: post #11

And all this striving towards Chekhov's idea of cultured allows one to achieve what? I'd venture that for most it would amount to smugly patting themselves on the back for having achieved such a fine state of serenity. If this version of cultured means just another way to feel superior to others, I'm happy to be uncultured.

It allows one to achieve a view where they don't judge others in an attempt to speak for them as you have done here. While you can imagine someone patting themselves on the back for being aesthetic, the reality is that is only occurring vividly in your own mind, and not out here. If someone was indeed patting themselves on the back out here for these things, that is a separate problem created of their own judgement.…

Your comment is barely comprehensible to me. Can you condense this to simple English? What are you even saying in half of your post?

> It allows one to achieve a view where they don't judge others

So you're telling me that being cultured allows one to not judge others, but while clearly having the effect of outwardly being smug to others?

That's basically what I got out of your comment and the parent post.

Your aside also implies that his comment basically shouldn't be allowed despite your explicit comment that it's "not to say."

This seems all rather smug and rude.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#24

Post by dang »

sandworm101 wrote: post #14
siberianbear wrote: post #2

I am an American living in Russia. When I was studying Russian I read a number of Chekhov's short stories and got a feel for who he was. I later came across one of his quotes: "В человеке должно быть все прекрасно: и лицо, и одежда, и душа, и мысли" (Everything in a person should be excellent: his face, his clothes, his soul and his ideas). I sometimes discussed this phrase with Russians, eventually coming to be beli…

What's the thing about russians and noses? The naval academy also has a statute with a lucky nose. In other cultures people want to touch the hands or feet of statues, but in russia it seems to be the nose.

> What's the thing about russians and noses?

Well. https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/g/gogol/nikolai/g61n/

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#25

Post by pdog »

Boothroid wrote: post #11

And all this striving towards Chekhov's idea of cultured allows one to achieve what? I'd venture that for most it would amount to smugly patting themselves on the back for having achieved such a fine state of serenity. If this version of cultured means just another way to feel superior to others, I'm happy to be uncultured.

Don't worry. Chekhov's advice is only meant for talented people.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#27

Post by dang »

anonymfus wrote: post #9

This translation is great but I think it's still interesting to read into the connotations of Chekhov's original words: http://www.anton-chehov.info/754-n-p-chexovu.html >you are drawn away from it, and you vacillate between cultured people and the lodgers vis-a-vis >тебя тянет от нее, и тебе приходится балансировать между культурной публикой и жильцами vis-а-vis. Here "cultured people" are originally "культурная пуб…

In English people used to say 'well-bred' but I can't quite squeeze that into the title above.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#28

Post by sandworm101 »

sevensor wrote: post #18
sandworm101 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the thing about russians and noses? The naval academy also has a statute with a lucky nose. In other cultures people want to touch the hands or feet of statues, but in russia it seems to be the nose.

I don't think it's a uniquely Russian thing. I think it has more to do with the scale of bronze statuary. Busts have accessible noses, but feet are easier to reach on full figures. My university in the United States had a bust of Abraham Lincoln with a lucky nose.

There may also be a bias tied to medicine. Noses are paticular indicators of some diseases (smallpox and syphalis) that may have created an association with luck.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#29

Post by geoka9 »

Frondo wrote: post #8
bushin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "exellent" is an excellent choice of the word (beautiful ≈ красиво).

Agreed, the English "beautiful" often doesn't seem to capture прекрасно. I always took them to have some overlapping meaning, rather than being a direct translation.

> the English "beautiful" often doesn't seem to capture прекрасно

I agree, but I'd say "excellent" is even further away in meaning. Translating between such distant languages is always an exercise in compromise, unless you're willing to take great liberties at interpretation (when translating poetry, for example).

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