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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#631

Post by rdl »

timthelion wrote: post #560
rdl wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful. The question is: where do you want to have the cutoff? I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), combined with a transparent and straightforward points-based system for mainly immigrant visas. I'd eliminate the inherent racism in the current system (penalizing India and China vs. Equatorial Gui…

Your bio says: "Aside from living on a Caribbean island during crypto export controlled 1990s, I've lived on a tiny artificial platform in the North Sea, plus more reasonable places like London, Amsterdam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, and spent 6 months diving in Thailand." So you've moved around a lot. But you want to make it harder for others to do so. It seems to me that you think you are better than others with you…

I never broke ITAR -- I strictly complied with it.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#632

Post by [deleted] »

xapata wrote: post #577
gozur88 wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I didn't think I was assigning new meaning, but only exactly what Bannon intended. I can, obviously, never be certain I've understood him correctly, so I just make my best guess. Why are you guessing at all? Why are you assuming he isn't saying what he means? >What is your interpretation of Bannon's words? What they mean in English.

> What they mean in English Let's pretend English is my second language. Could you paraphrase Bannon to help me understand him more clearly?

[deleted]

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#633

Post by drewrv »

mc32 wrote: post #621
drewrv wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would barely impact them. Impoverished people who voyage hundreds of miles through the desert in search of a better life are not going to be deterred by a wall. They'll dig under it, climb over it, or smash right through it if need be.

Border Patrol reports a drop in illegal border crossings of up to 60% [fam units] and 40% indivs, over the last two months compared to the prev year, so it appears that just knowing the chances of deportation are higher is discouraging prospective illegal crossers.

That has nothing to do with a wall.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#634

Post by coldtea »

cromwellian wrote: post #521
coldtea wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, tribalism is human nature, and we have done very many ugly things to one another because of it. We have also done as many ugly things to one another in order to build cross-national entities, like empires and communist-based internationalist mega-states. > I don't think we should sweep racism and xenophobia under the rug with the argument that "boys will be boys" Well, first let's not call the desire to mainta…

Colonialism and Imperialism isn't about building cross-national melting pot entities, it's about strategic control of resources and geo-political regions. You think previous empires were built because they were more concerned with equality and anti-tribalism?

>Colonialism and Imperialism isn't about building cross-national melting pot entities, it's about strategic control of resources and geo-political regions.

"Melting-pot entities" are concerned with the same things ("strategic control of resources and geo-political regions") too. Cross-national melting is mostly about whether you allow the peoples you control to keep their identities or you want to abolish them too, for less market friction and/or smoother political control. USSR comes to mind on the latter. UK/US/EU on the former.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#635

Post by vacri »

gumby wrote: post #587
vacri wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WAP has been dead for more than 40 years, and 28% of the Australian population was born overseas (21% if you discount poms and kiwis). In comparison, the UK has 12% foreign-born and the US 14%. If you exclude the refugee crisis last year as a once-off, the only sizable western countries taking in more migrants per capita are Spain and Norway. As national policies go, there aren't many that have been so resounding…

Yes I'm an old fart, born in the (fortunately waning) days of WAP. When I first visited the US, we landed at D.C. and drove north, because to drive south would have meant we would have to split up the family to stay in different hotels. Still, it seemed less racist than Australia. Nowadays, both have improved but I feel like the positions have reversed. Then again, I don't think America throws kids off navy ships int…

> Then again, I don't think America throws kids off navy ships into the water.

When did Australia do that? The claim was that the refugeees threw the kids overboard in order to get a rescue, not that the navy threw them overboard themselves for a photo op. The scandal was about the government lying about refugee actions, not that the navy was drowning kids.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_Overboard_affair

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#636

Post by sneak »

unethical_ban wrote: post #123
sneak wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sense of entitlement due to physical proximity of birthplace is completely arbitrary, ridiculous, and counterproductive. Discriminating on nationality (which most had zero choice in, and was decided for them at birth) is the same as discriminating based on skin color or biological sex. It's just standard anticompetitive in-group/out-group fear-driven nonsense.

Do you argue that culture and community can never have a geographically component?

Not at all, but using force to prohibit people from traveling and participating in any culture they wish to peacefully interact in is ridiculous.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#637

Post by omarforgotpwd »

roesel wrote: post #116
omarforgotpwd wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many alternatives if you are denied from a university, such as applying to a different university or learning online instead. There is only one America

Well there are other countries, contrary to popular belief. With your logic, the answer would be to emigrate somewhere else. But I think that's not the point.

There's only one America though. If you want to live with your American cousin, work at an a company that happens to be headquartered in the us or just like America living in another country may not be an alternative.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#638

Post by drewrv »

Arizhel wrote: post #597
drewrv wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating language and culture. I'm against using "culture" as a reason for (dis)allowing immigrants in. A language proficiency requirement is reasonable.

How can you not conflate language and culture? The two are inseparably intertwined. While not all people who speak the same language (or more likely, dialects of it, e.g. American vs British vs Indian English) will have extremely similar cultures, I don't think there's any good examples of people speaking very different languages and having extremely similar cultures. Language and culture go hand-in-hand. Even for th…

You assert that there's more similarity between American and Australian culture than American and Mexican. I don't believe that. US cuisine borrows more heavily from Mexico than Australia. We have more Spanish speakers than Spain. We have Veep candidates pandering to them. The US and Mexico both like fake wrestling. We have large cities with Spanish names and an entire state named after Mexico.

But it's a dumb argument to go into because I probably won't convince you about cultural similarity and vice versa.

On the other hand, language can be quantitatively measured and gives an opportunity to ambitious people around the world.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#639

Post by witty_username »

Oxitendwe wrote: post #459
witty_username wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the point of government if not to act in the best interests of its citizens? Why are our governments now apparently obligated to act in the best interests of foreign nationals? This has nothing to do with alleviating poverty or humanitarian ideals. It's blatantly obvious that this advocacy for open borders is part of a power grab by the left to ensure that they stay in power for decades to come, at the expe…

>Economics research says low wage immigrants are a net economic benefit, so it is in the interest of its citizens Economics is not the only factor to factor into someone's interests. Everyone has things they value more than money. >Also, I think the extreme poverty in parts of the world can justify help, just like how 1000$ is more to a poor person than a millionaire. How does that justify help? It's not just like yo…

> Economics is not the only factor to factor into someone's interests. Everyone has things they value more than money.

What are the things that affect the case for open immigration?

> How does that justify help? It's not just like you help them to get on their feet and you're done. They and their descendants will live in your society for generations. Nobody is obligated to give them this at the expense of their citizens.

What is the harm in them living in my society?

> They want to immigrate here because wages are higher. However, there are only a limited number of jobs, and so flooding the job market with more people prevents natives from being able to find work, which is against their interests.

No, there are not a limited number of jobs. See lump of labor fallacy. Some natives will have a harder time finding work, but there's a net benefit to natives.

Just read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/wiki/faq_immigration

> It's exactly like Roosevelt's Judicial Procedures Reform Bill of 1937, where he tried to pack the supreme court with justices favorable to his political faction, except this time they are trying to pack the US electorate. These people and their descendants overwhelmingly vote left.

Don't give immigrants the right to vote or full citizenship then. Problem solved.

> >Well, I am against forcing racial diversity, so you can stay with your ethnic group/society in my proposal. That's illegal in the United States. Every ethnic group has to live among every other ethnic group. Nobody can create societies that only allow people of their ethnic group to live among them, so it's not true that anyone can stay with their ethnic group, barring some serious constitutional reforms.

Source for constitutional reforms being needed? I think the U.S. constitution only says the government can't discriminate based on race, ethnicity, etc.

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