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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#501
post #476

>Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups Curious if the overwhelmingly-Jewish editorialists at WSJ would likewise rationalize unlimited non-Jewish immigration to Israel based on spurious "greater good" economic arguments. Maybe there's something more important than the economy at stake when deciding the fate of a national inheritance?

America is a nation of immigrants. We haven't been an Anglo Saxon nation in a while and aren't a white nation. Israel is a homeland for Jewish refugees(and the Arabs that remained there after the independence war).

In other words, "one standard for me and another for thee".

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also heavily depends on the definition of "immigrant". Uber is listed, for example. The two founders of Uber are Travis Kalanick (born in Los Angeles, not an immigrant) and Garrett Camp (born in Canada, resides in San Fransisco). Is Garrett Camp an immigrant? Sure sounds like it. But is that really in the spirit of "founded by immigrants"? I am not arguing in favor of an immigrant ban in any way, I think it's a ba…

>Is Garrett Camp an immigrant? Sure sounds like it. But is that really in the spirit of "founded by immigrants"? Yes, Garrett Camp is an immigrant. He just happens to be white and from Canada and is thus perceived less as "those other people" and more "American" because he blends in. If he came from Sudan would you consider him to be "more of an immigrant"? Your own comment implies this bias even if you didn't mean f…

Agreed.

It's like No True Scotsman fallacy but applied in converse in terms of "true immigrant".

Camp is an immigrant. Case closed.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#503
post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is a nation of immigrants. We haven't been an Anglo Saxon nation in a while and aren't a white nation. Israel is a homeland for Jewish refugees(and the Arabs that remained there after the independence war).

In other words, "one standard for me and another for thee".

Yes all countries should all have the same laws and culture!

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#504
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For effective tracking you will need a national Id card for us nationals. That is something many different groups in the US are against for different reasons. Such an id could solve a lot of other problems and of course will create its own problems. But I think the net benefit outweighs the loss.

You could also potentially do it by retaining positive tracking of non-permanent visitors and then going after them as soon as status becomes disallowed. It would be challenging to locate someone in a disallowed visa status on transition without a national ID card, but there are probably ways. One option might be to enroll them on entry with lots of biometrics, and then do a "not on blacklist" biometric check at gove…

Other than going to the DMV once a few years, buying a house and flying, I rarely if ever use a government service that isn't transit. When I first come in I use a lot of government services, such as getting a bank account and an SSN, but that is a one time process that happens when your legal.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a really strange and horrible viewpoint you have. > In my world, it's always OK for someone for someone to enter someone else's land/property if they've been given permission. Good. > If's not OK to do so if they haven't. Yes, because that suits you well. Because you only recognize those kinds of hardship that you yourself would want to escape from and ignore those that are actually in play. > However, holdi…

>You do realize that building that wall essentially says: Mexicans, you're on your own, you won't be able to vote with your feet any more, and we will not allow you to come to work in the USA to send money home in order to slowly increase the standard of living South of the border, made worse by American companies being strong-armed into operating North of that same border? Please explain what prevents Mexico from im…

> Please explain what prevents Mexico from improving its standard of living on its own.

Nothing whatsoever. Except of course that no country exists 'on its own'.

> Mexico is not some kind of slave to America; it's a sovereign nation, in control of its own destiny.

No, it's a lot less in control of its own destiny than America, mostly because of America (incidentally, also the biggest consumer in the drug trade). To all intents and purposes Mexico is utterly dependent on what happens on the other side of the border. Of course it is easy to deny that if you choose to do so but it suits quite a few interests in the United States just fine to have a weak and poor country next door.

To the point that there have been serious interventions in Mexican internal affairs to keep it that way benefiting (mostly American) foreign strategic and economic interests.

> It's free to trade with all the other 200+ nations on Earth, or to attempt to negotiate having its people go live there.

To the extent that it is able to do so, it does.

> Why does America get all the blame in your world for Mexico's problems?

It doesn't. Why do you read it as such?

America is to blame only to such an extent that they first establish a whole pile of factories abroad when it suits them and then at the drop of a hat imperils the newly created stability and middle-class in a country next door. That sort of action comes with responsibility.

> Who does America get to blame for its problems?

With great power comes great responsibility. If you don't want to be seen as responsible do not continuously mess in other countries affairs and when you do realize that you can't withdraw that support overnight.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#506
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you sort out people on a "promising"/"not promising" scale for doing good things for the economy? Ask Australia? But at a very basic level: * Criminal background -> sorry * No high school-equivalent education -> sorry * Crippling, expensive disease -> sorry Those are just three basic things that let you know straight away that this person has little chance to do anything but consume resources.

Under your simple scale you would exclude Nelson Mandela, the Dalai Lama, and Stephen Hawking, respectively. I think they've all been supremely wasteful 'consumers of resources.'

The steven hawking outliers can apply under the O-1 visa type schemes, which he would definitely pass. A points scheme doesn't have to be the only scheme.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Walls going up are days of sadness. Walls broken down are days of joy. Depends. Whenever people put up the walls for their house (which serve the same purpose) those are days of joy too. Same for nations that fought hard to establish their borders and sovereignty. And fewer national borders is not some "wave of the future" -- it's what was tried and rejected when nation states became a thing. We had large, all-enco…

Old proverb: "If you enjoy more fortune and prosperity than others, you don't build a bigger wall, you build a bigger table..."

That's a lovely proverb.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#508
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>" The fair thing to do would be to accept a random sample of would-be immigrants. " All points aside, isn't that exactly what the US is doing with the Green Card lottery system? It's entire mandate is to "increase immigrant diversity", by giving countries with low immigration to the US preferential counts towards the lottery. >" But it's immoral. Rich host countries are poaching productive individuals while selectin…

> You know what is actually immoral? Forcing individuals that want to make a better life for their children, into staying in a country that "needs help" and they want to get out of. But that's also true of would be migrants who are most in need of help. In either case you are 'forcing' someone to stay in their home country. The question is, if you don't have an open border policy, which of the would be migrants will…

>"But that's also true of would be migrants who are most in need of help. In either case you are 'forcing' someone to stay in their home country. "

Not entirely. In the one case, you're simply saying "you can't come here, unless you are X-amounts productive". The other one, which I was arguing-against, was more along the lines of: "You can't come here because you are Y-amounts productive and should stay there and fix your side of this earth."

The net result is not the same. The one prescribes that an individual has to be "X-amounts productive", whereas the other says "if you are more than Y-amounts productive, you are not allowed to come here". With all the upside-down incentives we have going on in the world right now with welfare and progressive taxation, this is the one area where government is still sort of "rewarding" the "productive" or "ambitious".

>"The controversial question is what constitutes 'your area'. Depending on who you asks it's anywhere from your neighborhood to the entire Earth. Depending on your take on that you could conclude that you have a legitimate right to kick people out of your street or that we should adopt an open border policy worldwide."

Well, as a Libertarian, I think borders are pretty damn arbitrary, too. But until we can get to that point, we have to be realistic about what we've decided to share with our neighbors. Ideally, we should be allowed to each decide how our tax money gets spent. If anything, we can restrict it's usage to the level of "openness" we wish to spread it around to. So some would want it only spent in their street, others to a city level, and the rest wish it to be spread equally for the whole world's benefit. That is, if we're talking about actually giving each person a choice, instead of what we call "Democracy".

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#509
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a Canadian be a better fit for southern california or texas? Is their experience moose hunting going to help in 100 degree heat? Why would we even want someone who's "culturally" a better fit? I'd love it if the people around me were more diverse, it makes life richer and more interesting.

I used to know a guy in Phoenix, Arizona who grew up in Edmonton, Canada. He made tons of money with the business he created. It seems like he fit in just fine, thanks to his command of English (his service business would have gotten nowhere if he didn't speak English), and an invention called "air conditioning" let him deal with the 100 degree heat, just like every other person in that metro area. Honestly, your com…

> Honestly, your comment about moose hunting is downright offensive.

It's supposed to be: the whole idea of allowing only people who are a good "cultural fit" is offensive. That's the point I was refuting. Determining "cultural fit" requires absurd stereotypes.

The idea that Mexicans can't find a place in our country is as absurd as the idea that Canadians can't.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a really strange and horrible viewpoint you have. > In my world, it's always OK for someone for someone to enter someone else's land/property if they've been given permission. Good. > If's not OK to do so if they haven't. Yes, because that suits you well. Because you only recognize those kinds of hardship that you yourself would want to escape from and ignore those that are actually in play. > However, holdi…

>You do realize that building that wall essentially says: Mexicans, you're on your own, you won't be able to vote with your feet any more, and we will not allow you to come to work in the USA to send money home in order to slowly increase the standard of living South of the border, made worse by American companies being strong-armed into operating North of that same border? Please explain what prevents Mexico from im…

> Why does America get all the blame in your world for Mexico's problems?

Where do you think the vast majority of the money propping up the organized crime groups that are disrupting civil society in Mexico comes from? The flow of money from the US involved is, proportional to the size of target economy, equivalent to some other country funnelling something like $200 billion a year to armed anti-government groups in the US.

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