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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#491

Post by kashkhan »

dgellow wrote: post #260
kashkhan wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants are people whose lives matter. the should be given equal rights and equal value, because even if they are deemed "useless", their kids or grandkids might contribute to the future of humanity.

You don't kill an immigrant when you refuse to give him access to a country. It has nothing to do with the future of humanity and everything to do with the future of the country. (Edit: I am an immigrant. And of course immigrant lives matter. All human lives matter)

many immigrant lives are cut short because they aren't allowed to migrate.

The poor have only their labor to trade with. systematically discriminating where they can work, destroys their lives just as much as slavery can. It's stolen wages.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#493

Post by kashkhan »

dgellow wrote: post #246
kashkhan wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

universities have limited classrooms and labs to fill. A country is not limited.

Of course a country is limited. Limited territory, limited resources.

the US is not being destroyed by immigrants coming and stealing the territory and resources. The US has plenty of unused fallow land that immigrants can buy/lease with real money and work with real labor. the US doesn't give free territory and resources to immigrants. It should allow them to freely trade in it.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#494

Post by jacquesm »

rayiner wrote: post #304
jacquesm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall") Walls going up are days of sadness. Walls broken down are days of joy. The thing to keep in mind here is that such walls built to keep others out can be used just as easily to keep the locals in (on either side).

> Walls broken down are days of joy. Not if you're a cell.

Not all cells have walls. In fact, come think of it, it's plants that have cell walls, animal cells do not have walls.

For animal cells you would use the cell membrane as an equivalent.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#495

Post by cyberferret »

coldtea wrote: post #245
jacquesm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall") Walls going up are days of sadness. Walls broken down are days of joy. The thing to keep in mind here is that such walls built to keep others out can be used just as easily to keep the locals in (on either side).

> Walls going up are days of sadness. Walls broken down are days of joy. Depends. Whenever people put up the walls for their house (which serve the same purpose) those are days of joy too. Same for nations that fought hard to establish their borders and sovereignty. And fewer national borders is not some "wave of the future" -- it's what was tried and rejected when nation states became a thing. We had large, all-enco…

Old proverb: "If you enjoy more fortune and prosperity than others, you don't build a bigger wall, you build a bigger table..."

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#496

Post by mozumder »

67726e wrote: post #485
wahern wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not possible. Without cheap labor that kind of work would either move off shore to where labor is cheaper, or it'd be automated. My father lives in rural Alabama and is a proud red neck. But he's a transplant and a little less provincial than many native Alabamians. I visited him a few years ago and noted how many Mexicans and Central Americans had moved into the area, starting from basically none 20 years ago. Most…

Either pay a higher wage and start paying a higher price, automate it, or do without it. Arguing in favor of exploitative labor practices because you just have to have strawberries or your lawn mowed is a horrible argument. We should not be importing impoverished people and keeping them impoverished for your own personal convenience and desire.

Classism exists, and will always exists.

Not everyone deserves to be treated equally. If you are the same as everyone else, what use are you? You become unnecessary. That is the fundamental rationale of life - we are not all the same chunk of organic matter.

Ensuring disparity is a good thing. Your life won't change because a rich person exists.

Also, anything can be considered "exploitative".

We should be importing impoverished foreigners in order to give them a better life here in the US, because that's what they want.

If you can't compete against these impoverished foreigners, then that's your fault, not theirs.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#497

Post by Arizhel »

jacquesm wrote: post #447
Arizhel wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really strange and horrible viewpoint you have. In my world, it's always OK for someone for someone to enter someone else's land/property if they've been given permission. If's not OK to do so if they haven't. However, holding people prisoner is always morally wrong. That's pretty much the definition of slavery. IMO, it's always OK for people to forcibly leave someone who's enslaving them; the complication i…

> That's a really strange and horrible viewpoint you have. > In my world, it's always OK for someone for someone to enter someone else's land/property if they've been given permission. Good. > If's not OK to do so if they haven't. Yes, because that suits you well. Because you only recognize those kinds of hardship that you yourself would want to escape from and ignore those that are actually in play. > However, holdi…

>You do realize that building that wall essentially says: Mexicans, you're on your own, you won't be able to vote with your feet any more, and we will not allow you to come to work in the USA to send money home in order to slowly increase the standard of living South of the border, made worse by American companies being strong-armed into operating North of that same border?

Please explain what prevents Mexico from improving its standard of living on its own. Mexico is not some kind of slave to America; it's a sovereign nation, in control of its own destiny. It's free to trade with all the other 200+ nations on Earth, or to attempt to negotiate having its people go live there.

Why does America get all the blame in your world for Mexico's problems? Who does America get to blame for its problems?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#498

Post by atomi »

kolbe wrote: post #484
kolbe wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what to say other than chill out. You have completely hijacked the original thread with your ill-argued cliche talking points. The original statement was "I'm appalled by the need for statistics showing how "useful" immigrants are." Mine response is that it's a necessary framework. I in no way gave any conclusions about what I believe is the result of thinking in that framework, but you seem to harbor so…

Got it. You're a troll whose only response is "umadbro."

It's very obvious you're upset since you're resorting to name calling.

No trolling required to upset you. It seems just facts and reality will do it.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#499

Post by libdong »

ralmidani wrote: post #155

I'm appalled by the need for statistics showing how "useful" immigrants are. Combating xenophobia should be a moral issue, not a utilitarian one. I understand some people will not be swayed by moral arguments, but society doesn't seem to try anymore. Utilitarian arguments have become the default.

I am equally disappointed when people use moral arguments. The problem is: your morals != my morals. Utilitarianism gives you much more of an objective measure of something, which everyone can discuss on the same premises. This (hopefully) removes the need to resort to the pissing contest that is emotional appeals.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#500

Post by bogomipz »

I have an honest question as I was not familiar National Foundation for American Policy before today.

Does anybody know how they are funded in general or who funded this study?

From some cursory research I see that Stuart Anderson, the person behind the NFAP worked on the Hill in the INS Office of Policy and Planning during the first term of George W. Bush. And his organization now regularly releases studies on public policy. This kind of screams lobbyist to me or at least retained by lobbyists.

I am not making any judgements on anything in the study or any statements about the current political climate I am just trying to read critically. I am curious to hear what other's might know about Stuart Anderson or the NFAP.

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