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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#251

Post by mozumder »

67726e wrote: post #214
mozumder wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US already as plenty of people that "culturally fit better", are more educated, are skilled, etc. We don't have enough people that picks Strawberry crops in California or does home construction in suburbs. We literally don't have those people willing to do those jobs, which can cause runaway inflation. Immigration is not about adding more of the same. It's about filling holes in our economy and labor force. How m…

> We don't have enough people that picks Strawberry crops in California or does home construction in suburbs. We literally don't have those people willing to do those jobs, which can cause runaway inflation Then increase the wage paid. You're literally arguing for a slave-wage underclass.

Are you under the mistaken impression that increasing wages paid would cause people to work those jobs?

And you are literally asking for runaway inflation. Guess who pays for that the most at a rate higher than the rest of society? The poor and the elderly on fixed income.

Do you want to punish the poor and elderly on fixed income because millennials can't be bothered to work hard labor because it might interrupt their precious time?

Maybe you would like to take away the healthcare for the poor and elderly as well?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#252

Post by VikingCoder »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #224
VikingCoder wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Human capital flight is the single biggest obstacle to development for the third world. Citation needed.

There's a million studies done about it. Also, the Wiki link I posted contained lots of links and references. Anyhow, here's one: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTAFRREGTOPTEIA/Resource... Quote from it: Weakness in human capital and particularly skill deficiency is a drag on investment and growth in Africa. Progress in overcoming shortages of skilled and trained manpower seems to be disappointingly slow, despit…

I was trying to gather more information, not debate.

But now that you mention it, none of those citations support your hyperbole that human capital flight "is the single biggest obstacle". They all refer to it as "a" problem, or "one of the main."

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#253

Post by xienze »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #126
am_i_down wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The distinction often is more akin to "promising" and "not promising". Universities, employers, creditors, those looking for a spouse, etc. Everyone does it to some degree. Why can't a country?

I never finished university, and I started a bunch of companies. How do you sort out people on a "promising"/"not promising" scale for doing good things for the economy?

> How do you sort out people on a "promising"/"not promising" scale for doing good things for the economy?

Ask Australia? But at a very basic level:

* Criminal background -> sorry

* No high school-equivalent education -> sorry

* Crippling, expensive disease -> sorry

Those are just three basic things that let you know straight away that this person has little chance to do anything but consume resources.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#254

Post by throwaway743824 »

rdl wrote: post #98
bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful. The question is: where do you want to have the cutoff? I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), combined with a transparent and straightforward points-based system for mainly immigrant visas. I'd eliminate the inherent racism in the current system (penalizing India and China vs. Equatorial Gui…

"It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful."

I think that's extremely hard in terms of startups. You're essentially expecting the government to select what is valuable and what isn't. I don't like unclear visa situations either, but I haven't really seen a country effectively implement "come here and do whatever for a bit as long as you can take care of yourself". Which is what I would think is most compatible with creating startups.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#255

Post by elif »

nilkn wrote: post #194
erispoe wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the problem is that we can't afford to "let them all in" Why is that? I'm genuinely curious. Are you making an economic or a cultural argument? On the economic side, there's no evidence that immigration, even mass immigration, has any negative consequences, apart from some more competition at the very low end of salaries, which should obviously be addressed. By and large, immigrants are net contributors to the econ…

> there's no evidence that immigration, even mass immigration, has any negative consequences, apart from some more competition at the very low end of salaries So, in other words, there is evidence that it does have negative consequences? I myself don't know either way. I just think that, if what you write is true, an impact at the low end of the salary spectrum isn't something to brush off as if it's nothing and does…

that effect is only negative from the specific perspective of low end salary holders.

that effect is positive for businesses and consumers.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#256

Post by dmix »

moduspol wrote: post #112
TuringNYC wrote: post #41

The irony here: Some people see studies like this and think, wow, think of how much we'd lose if we didnt let in immigrants. Our economy would be smaller, we'd have fewer jobs, etc. Other people see studies like this and think, wow, only us locals should own, run, and be employed by these Billion-Dollar Startups. Bannon has explicitly noted this as a goal!

Some of us even see studies like this and think, wow, I wonder how many ways you can make headlines by framing arguments deceptively to support a pre-conceived world view!

People will always find ways of framing it into convenient political dichotomies. Only further blurring the much grayer reality of the situation. Which is why this article even made it on to the front page in the first place and why it should be flagged if it doesn't promote rational discourse.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#257

Post by jacquesm »

coldtea wrote: post #245
jacquesm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall") Walls going up are days of sadness. Walls broken down are days of joy. The thing to keep in mind here is that such walls built to keep others out can be used just as easily to keep the locals in (on either side).

> Walls going up are days of sadness. Walls broken down are days of joy. Depends. Whenever people put up the walls for their house (which serve the same purpose) those are days of joy too. Same for nations that fought hard to establish their borders and sovereignty. And fewer national borders is not some "wave of the future" -- it's what was tried and rejected when nation states became a thing. We had large, all-enco…

> Whenever people put up the walls for their house (which serve the same purpose) those are days of joy too.

I don't think that was the context of the OP's comment, but if you wish to extend to those kinds of walls then that's fine with me. It's just not the way I would have interpreted the meaning of a border wall.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#258

Post by atomi »

dgellow wrote: post #246
kashkhan wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

universities have limited classrooms and labs to fill. A country is not limited.

Of course a country is limited. Limited territory, limited resources.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/06/the-gra...

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#259

Post by artursapek »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #182
eugeneionesco wrote: post #165

How many of them were illegal immigrants? Can't read the article because it's behind a paywall for me.

Why does it matter?

Because most of the anger at Trump and his admin has been around their plan for deportation of criminal illegal aliens

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#260

Post by dgellow »

kashkhan wrote: post #228
bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

Immigrants are people whose lives matter. the should be given equal rights and equal value, because even if they are deemed "useless", their kids or grandkids might contribute to the future of humanity.

You don't kill an immigrant when you refuse to give him access to a country. It has nothing to do with the future of humanity and everything to do with the future of the country.

(Edit: I am an immigrant. And of course immigrant lives matter. All human lives matter)

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