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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#121

Post by stale2002 »

xapata wrote: post #111
stale2002 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK then, what would your opinion be of tripling the number if H1B, and drastically reducing all other immigration programs at the same time, so the total amount of immigrants stays the same?

I'm not a fan of central planning. The market is usually more efficient at deciding what jobs are useful.

We are already centrally planning immigration.

Changing the numbers around on our existing centrally planned system doesn't make it any more or less centrally planned.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#122

Post by jlebrech »

jinfiesto wrote: post #71
jlebrech wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is also called the slippery slope fallacy.

While I appreciate the recognition of the fallacy, just because the reasoning fits the template for a fallacious argument doesn't mean that it is. The slippery slope argument is only a fallacy if other evidence doesn't exist to suggest we're on such a slope. There is historical precedent in this particular instance...

it doesn't just work when it applies to bigots, it applies to everyone.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#123

Post by unethical_ban »

sneak wrote: post #61
TuringNYC wrote: post #41

The irony here: Some people see studies like this and think, wow, think of how much we'd lose if we didnt let in immigrants. Our economy would be smaller, we'd have fewer jobs, etc. Other people see studies like this and think, wow, only us locals should own, run, and be employed by these Billion-Dollar Startups. Bannon has explicitly noted this as a goal!

This sense of entitlement due to physical proximity of birthplace is completely arbitrary, ridiculous, and counterproductive. Discriminating on nationality (which most had zero choice in, and was decided for them at birth) is the same as discriminating based on skin color or biological sex. It's just standard anticompetitive in-group/out-group fear-driven nonsense.

Do you argue that culture and community can never have a geographically component?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#124

Post by cromwellian »

elastic_church wrote: post #65
pm90 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the "Illegals"... Rhetoric aside, as you pointed out, this is only the beginning. Authoritarians always need a scrapegoat to blame for "failed policies". Once one group is eliminated, on to another.

First they came for the illegals but I didn't speak up because my 401k has been making massive gains and this whole administration has been awesome for me but I can't say that out loud in California because people are still imagining a reason to lose their minds while the checks and balances are working out as intended the whole time!

And your 401k was up massively since Obama took office as well long before this current wave of anti-immigrant sentiment.

The market is up because of an irrational belief that Trump is going to enact the pipe dreams of the SeekingAlpha crowd with massive tax cuts that the Democrats are never going to approve.

Statistics show most likely there is going to be a big correction and a recession on Trump's watch. Never in the US's 200+ year history has it gone more than 11 years without a recession, check the NBER data.

So given the likely downturn in the markets when people realize that this stuff isn't going to be enacted, will speak up then because it's no longer "awesome" for you?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#125

Post by [deleted] »

jinfiesto wrote: post #71
jlebrech wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is also called the slippery slope fallacy.

While I appreciate the recognition of the fallacy, just because the reasoning fits the template for a fallacious argument doesn't mean that it is. The slippery slope argument is only a fallacy if other evidence doesn't exist to suggest we're on such a slope. There is historical precedent in this particular instance...

[deleted]

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#126

Post by bjelkeman-again »

am_i_down wrote: post #83
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. Universities do it.

The distinction often is more akin to "promising" and "not promising". Universities, employers, creditors, those looking for a spouse, etc. Everyone does it to some degree. Why can't a country?

I never finished university, and I started a bunch of companies. How do you sort out people on a "promising"/"not promising" scale for doing good things for the economy?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#127

Post by oh_sigh »

muninn_ wrote: post #108
rdl wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful. The question is: where do you want to have the cutoff? I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), combined with a transparent and straightforward points-based system for mainly immigrant visas. I'd eliminate the inherent racism in the current system (penalizing India and China vs. Equatorial Gui…

Yeah I mean, the problem is that we can't afford to "let them all in", so how do you decide who to let in? An immigration policy that is held be numerous other countries that favors skilled immigrants seems to be reasonable. On the other hand, brain drain. How will those countries continue to get better and enjoy a modern standard of living if all the smart people leave?

Perhaps nations will be incentivized to fix the underlying causes of their brain drain if they perceive it as a big problem.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#128

Post by dragonwriter »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

> One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants.

That's actually one of the basic premises of pro-immigrant policy, too (perhaps even moreso than anti-immigrant policies.)

Actually, anti-immigrant groups favoring a hard closed door with little attempt to distinguish useless from useful are probably more significant among the anti-immigrant side than the opposite I idea,puren-source with little attempt to distinguish, is on the pro-immigrant side.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#129

Post by muninn_ »

cromwellian wrote: post #18
Cuuugi wrote: post #10

Whenever I see "Immigration" in the title, i think anti-Trump and get sad. No one is trying to stop legal immigration. Tech companies are mad because they are cracking down on H1-B Visa abuse. This is not a bad thing.

Really? Than why so many leaked memos show that Bannon and Miller want to reduce family Visas for those already legally here? Why is Bannon and Miller's favorite novel a racist French book about Europe becoming less white? Why when Bannon was interviewed on radio he said he wanted to bring the numbers on legal immigration way down? You're fooling yourself if you think this is just about undocumented Mexicans, Muslims…

What the book was actually about was the worry that the France was losing its national identity, the framework upon which it was built was Christianity. They want to preserve that identity. I don't think it's about skin color, but about shared cultural values that they found to be appealing and necessary. As it happens, white people were those people. You could easily reverse those roles with any other skin color.

This is a type of reaction that people have when faced with what they perceive to be a quick cultural change. Things to them were goo as they were, so changes present a threat to that stability. It's human nature.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#130

Post by icu »

capocannoniere wrote: post #67

I assume what they really mean by Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups is that 51% of $1B+ U.S. startups have at least one immigrant founder , right? (as opposed to 51% of unicorn founders are immigrants )

From what I've read of the report, the 51% were all 100% legal immigrants. Therefore I'm wondering what exactly is the news story here? Would the Wall Street Journal really lead with a headline "Legal Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups"? I really doubt it... and think the title is disingenuous because it implies the notion that all immigration is good. I don't buy that line of reasoning and I haven't heard any compelling arguments or seen any verifiable data to back that up.

I do think that America--and indeed any country--should allow for, and advocate, that the best and brightest from around the world be allowed to legally immigrate.

But I agree with what capocannoniere is implying, that no one builds that kind of success alone.

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