Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#311

Post by daxfohl » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 3:20 PM UTC

All the responses here indicate the same "la dee da having kids is so wonderful that you don't even miss the other stuff." Fuck that. I have kids and I totally miss being able to stay up all night working on stuff and exploring new technologies, feeling like the world is going on without me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a passable dad, spend as much time with kids as possible, take them out to libraries and parks and try to teach them things. But in the back of my head most of that time I'm still lamenting the things that I'm not able to do and that I'll probably never be able to accomplish, wondering if this was the right decision. But it seems almost heretical these days to admit that. I can't be the only one, right?

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#312

Post by eduren » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 3:21 PM UTC

notburnt wrote: post #303

eduren wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, they don't have a right to an opinion? I mean, sure, call them wrong, but to say they're not allowed to express a thought?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean unfounded opinion has to be respected or borne just because. Too many things people say are "just because I think so" without much thinking going into why or how they came to that conclusion. So, maybe calling out baselessly opinionated people is ok? As an aside, seems like the response was in the same tone as the parent's comment.

I agree that the tone is the same in both cases.

>So, maybe calling out baselessly opinionated people is ok?

Of course it's okay. But call them out by saying they're wrong/baseless/uninformed, not by dismissing their "right to an opinion".

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#313

Post by elastic_church » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 3:22 PM UTC

caseysoftware wrote: post #266

bshimmin wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I'm completely baffled by this. Am I the only one who thinks taking your young children on a conference call is somewhere between totally unprofessional and, well, very annoying? I get that your children are your priority - but surely they shouldn't be the priority of everyone else on that call? Is the work at hand not the priority? My 3 year old makes a lot of noise and is quite prone to tantrums. Some of my cli…

My two year old is super chill and rarely makes a sound. If he does, I give him a clicky pen and he's set for another 5-10 minutes. If I open a cartoon on Youtube (muted), it buys me another 5-10 minutes. I get your concern but it's a non-issue here. Edit: Thinking more about this.. If my team was deeply offended by this, I don't want to work there. My boys are important to me and if they're not willing to accept tha…

"If I disagree with this one thing which wasn't apparent from any glassdoor review, recruiter, interview, unique set of benefits and perks, or compensation package, then I don't want to work there"

- Says person with desirable skills in a hot job market who never changed jobs since graduating college

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#314

Post by cabaalis » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 3:24 PM UTC

synrst wrote: post #288

minhajuddin wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two kids, and I love the time I spend with them. My life's goal at the moment is "Have a good time with my kids and teach them the good stuff". There is this song "Cat's in the Cradle" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat's_in_the_Cradle which I really love. It shows the pitfalls of living a fast life. Pasting the lyrics here ( http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/harrychapin/catsinthecradle.h... ) : "Cat's In The Crad…

I feel like every parent has this moment when they hear this song again, and it makes sense and your heart drops.

It gets worse. Harry Chapin died at the age of 38 in 1981. His son, Josh, was born in 1972. He only had 9 short years with him.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#315

Post by kdazzle » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 3:25 PM UTC

I like to read a bit after dinner when my kid goes to bed. It's much nicer than looking at a screen after I come home from looking at a screen. And I like reading tech books better than blogs anyways - I find that a lot of stuff online just regurgitates what classics like Clean Code are saying, but less eloquently.

The only downside is that reading books doesn't help you learn new languages or frameworks.

Screw the github graph.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#316

Post by arghIdontwantto » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 3:25 PM UTC

bshimmin wrote: post #177

caseysoftware wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. PG wrote a post a while back about how kids really only have the magic of Christmas a handful of times (ages 3-11?) and then it's gone. When you're making choices, realize there will always be another framework, another conference, another chance to try out that new tool but your kid is constantly changing, learning, and is fundamentally different today, tomorrow, and a week from now, especially when they're yo…

OK, I'm completely baffled by this. Am I the only one who thinks taking your young children on a conference call is somewhere between totally unprofessional and, well, very annoying? I get that your children are your priority - but surely they shouldn't be the priority of everyone else on that call? Is the work at hand not the priority? My 3 year old makes a lot of noise and is quite prone to tantrums. Some of my cli…

I work from home with a great team. I had my son jump into two calls. Both times he was completely naked and had just ran away from his mother after a bath. Both times I was greeted with fun and interaction from the team. When I apologised after about the interruption, I got a private message from the CEO to never even think about it. They are happy he was on the call for a few minutes and everyone interacted with him.

I guess it depends on the team/clients, but my kid comes first, 110% of the times. I don't care. I do good work, if a 5-10 minute interruption on a call because my kid wanted to say 'hi' to the people in the computer is enough to piss people off, I won't work with them.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#317

Post by up_and_up » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 3:28 PM UTC

> They brushed me off saying it's just not possible or they don't look after their kids.

Fuck that noise.

Hands-down the best programmers I have worked with have had multiple kids. I am talking about darth vader level chops, the gurus on the team. They take a problem or technology and understand it at its deepest level.

Things I notice that they would do:

1. Always have one new major idea/pattern/framework they were focused on learning. They would focus on it and learn it well.

2. Present ideas or attend meetups once a month. Going once a month is not a huge commitment.

3. Have a small side project, maybe something to test out the idea/concept/technology from #1

I myself have 3 kids and this pattern has worked well for me also ;)

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#318

Post by shoefly » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 3:31 PM UTC

bshimmin wrote: post #177

caseysoftware wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. PG wrote a post a while back about how kids really only have the magic of Christmas a handful of times (ages 3-11?) and then it's gone. When you're making choices, realize there will always be another framework, another conference, another chance to try out that new tool but your kid is constantly changing, learning, and is fundamentally different today, tomorrow, and a week from now, especially when they're yo…

OK, I'm completely baffled by this. Am I the only one who thinks taking your young children on a conference call is somewhere between totally unprofessional and, well, very annoying? I get that your children are your priority - but surely they shouldn't be the priority of everyone else on that call? Is the work at hand not the priority? My 3 year old makes a lot of noise and is quite prone to tantrums. Some of my cli…

I've worked on distributed teams where kids pop into conference calls to say hi. It actually does some good when everyone is getting pissed about some shitstorm or another. If a kid (or kitten) pops on the screen, everyone calms down and the shitstorm magically evaporates.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#319

Post by LeanderK » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 3:32 PM UTC

majkinetor wrote: post #228

jwr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agreed. I find it impossible to work in the afternoons/evenings, because even if you find a moment, it's too hard to concentrate and do meaningful (e.g. hard) stuff. Make the best of your work hours. The idea of a boring job "for money" and fun/learning stuff afterwards is outdated. Don't waste your life on a boring job. Work time should be when you do fascinating stuff and learn.

That is totally unrealistic. No job will fit your interest 100% unless you are lucky bastard. Boring jobs are the rule. The point is to make boring stuff less borring.

i agree, but i think this is not what he meant.

Most of the people working in the software industry are lucky enough to balance the two (getting a job that is paying enough to live a decent live while also not being totally boring). If you are extremely lucky, there is some correlation between fun and pay. Maybe working not as long is harder in SF, but there are other options, it's a compromise.

But lets not forget that for many this is not very their reality. They have a family to feed and not much room to compromise.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#320

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 3:32 PM UTC

bshimmin wrote: post #177

caseysoftware wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. PG wrote a post a while back about how kids really only have the magic of Christmas a handful of times (ages 3-11?) and then it's gone. When you're making choices, realize there will always be another framework, another conference, another chance to try out that new tool but your kid is constantly changing, learning, and is fundamentally different today, tomorrow, and a week from now, especially when they're yo…

OK, I'm completely baffled by this. Am I the only one who thinks taking your young children on a conference call is somewhere between totally unprofessional and, well, very annoying? I get that your children are your priority - but surely they shouldn't be the priority of everyone else on that call? Is the work at hand not the priority? My 3 year old makes a lot of noise and is quite prone to tantrums. Some of my cli…

Unless your company is directly contributing to clinical immortality, children are always a priority for long-term development. That's where all the future owners, managers, employees, and customers come from.

Once a kid knows how to behave appropriately in public, any exposure to their parents' jobs also teaches them how to behave appropriately at the workplace, and what to expect after leaving school. If you don't accept this at your own workplace, you are pushing that burden onto someone else's workplace, or accepting by default any cultural shift that may occur in future workplaces.

As I would not expose my own kids to a workplace environment that I did not find to be minimally acceptable, seeing kids around is to me a sign of a healthy work environment. Not seeing them is a red flag, but it could just be because your workplace does not allow visitors.

This is the same principle that causes me to lower my opinion of employers that do not hire people with zero experience. You are simultaneously pushing the burden of assimilation and training onto other people, stunting the development of the people you do hire--as they are denied mentorship and leadership opportunities--and passively accepting that you have a much reduced role in shaping the future of the industry.