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Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

businessinsider.com

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Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#51

Post by cjensen »

synicalx wrote: post #47
cjensen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does not give people the right to demand... People always have the right to demand things. That's literally what Free Speech is.

I mean 'right' in a social sense, you can demand whatever the hell you want but it doesn't mean it's socially acceptable to do so. Also not everyone lives in America, and many countries don't have any constitutional protection for Freedom of Speech - my country Australia being a good example of this.

Yes it is socially acceptable to call on people with moral failings to work on fixing them.

Also, Free Speech is a human right acknowledged in sensible parts of the global like Australia. It's not just a law in a particular fiefdom.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#52

Post by remarkEon »

cjensen wrote: post #50
remarkEon wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a morally bankrupt and deeply prejudicial way to evaluate potential hires.

It's prejudicial and morally bankrupt to avoid people who are happy to work for a company which breaks the law in prejudicial ways? That's not how basic logic and common sense work.

You're assuming a freedom of movement between employers that I think is a little bold, and you're coming across as a little flippant of someone's personal situation. I think that's odd and a little demeaning. Plenty of other companies have been sanctioned in the past for wrong-doing, and I think it's somewhat silly to write-off anyone who worked there after the sanctions. "Basic logic and common sense" would lead one to evaluate a candidate based on their individual skills, experiences, and situations - not on an assumption about their character based on where they worked in the past.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#53

Post by synicalx »

cjensen wrote: post #48
synicalx wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you'd also agree that it's better not to quit if quitting means losing your house? I'd like to see you explain your 'No Interview for Uber Alumni' policy to your boss when you pass over a perfectly qualified candidate purely because you hold a grudge against their ex-employer.

Quitting doesn't mean losing your house. You are being silly. If it gets to the point where I blacklist Uber employees, not only will my boss know it, but I'll probably show him the resume so we can have a laugh. We have company policies about discrimination and would never take a risk on someone who was okay with working at a company that clearly does discriminate.

> Quitting doesn't mean losing your house. You are being silly.

Excuse me? I spent the first 4 years of my working life doing debt negotiation with banks and other creditors on behalf of people on the verge of bankruptcy. It was my responsibility to negotiated and broker payment arrangements, debt consolidation, and financial plans for probably thousands of people over those years so I've got a pretty bloody good idea of what I'm talking about here.

Suddenly losing all of your income can 100% result in losing your house. To assume otherwise just shows how little you know outside of your own little white collar bubble.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#54

Post by bmpafa »

remarkEon wrote: post #25
z4chj wrote: post #12

The tweets at the end really damage this article's reputation as a reasonable piece of journalism (if that's how you choose to label Business Insider). It is absurd to claim that ones reputation is irreparably damaged by not having left the company yet. People have jobs because they need income and to support their lives and families. Even when a company is clearly screwing up (looking right at Uber here), employees…

I genuinely don't understand why news outlets do this unless it's critical to the story. I've seen good examples of Tweet integration in places like The Intercept, for example, but usually they involve some other facet of the story where the Tweets themselves are consequential to the reporting. It just seems like useless noise when done like this article.

The worst thing to happen to journalism in the past decade is that, somehow, "some random strangers on Twitter said a thing" became an acceptable news story. I think it's worse than useless noise--it almost inevitably implies a broader trend/opinion than the author has the evidence to support.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#55

Post by cjensen »

synicalx wrote: post #53
cjensen wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quitting doesn't mean losing your house. You are being silly. If it gets to the point where I blacklist Uber employees, not only will my boss know it, but I'll probably show him the resume so we can have a laugh. We have company policies about discrimination and would never take a risk on someone who was okay with working at a company that clearly does discriminate.

> Quitting doesn't mean losing your house. You are being silly. Excuse me? I spent the first 4 years of my working life doing debt negotiation with banks and other creditors on behalf of people on the verge of bankruptcy. It was my responsibility to negotiated and broker payment arrangements, debt consolidation, and financial plans for probably thousands of people over those years so I've got a pretty bloody good ide…

If you work for Uber and can't find a new job in this market, you either aren't trying or aren't qualified.

We aren't talking about hypothetical people on the verge of bankruptcy here who we have constructed from first principles. We're talking about people who have somehow managed to buy a house within commute range of Uber SF. If quitting means losing the house, they've done something very very wrong.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#56

Post by corndoge »

snowwrestler wrote: post #21
eruditely wrote: post #13

It's probably just a high energy workplace full of plenty of power moves and the resulting hit and miss that comes from that. As if sexual relations could be acted upon as if we had perfect knowledge! Hell even if we did have perfect knowledge we would know that women find it attractive in itself if a guy will approach and based on the skill of that approach yea/nea or w/e happens, so even if we could read each-other…

Can't decide if this is satire.

Probably what they meant by "epistemic randomness"

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#57

Post by cjensen »

remarkEon wrote: post #52
cjensen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's prejudicial and morally bankrupt to avoid people who are happy to work for a company which breaks the law in prejudicial ways? That's not how basic logic and common sense work.

You're assuming a freedom of movement between employers that I think is a little bold, and you're coming across as a little flippant of someone's personal situation. I think that's odd and a little demeaning. Plenty of other companies have been sanctioned in the past for wrong-doing, and I think it's somewhat silly to write-off anyone who worked there after the sanctions. "Basic logic and common sense" would lead one…

I'm being flippant regarding people's flippant dismissal of the pervasive culture of discrimination in their own company? No. No I am not. This is a serious matter. The only thing unserious is the insistence of some that being asked to leave an immoral job is demeaning.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#58

Post by synicalx »

cjensen wrote: post #51
synicalx wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean 'right' in a social sense, you can demand whatever the hell you want but it doesn't mean it's socially acceptable to do so. Also not everyone lives in America, and many countries don't have any constitutional protection for Freedom of Speech - my country Australia being a good example of this.

Yes it is socially acceptable to call on people with moral failings to work on fixing them. Also, Free Speech is a human right acknowledged in sensible parts of the global like Australia. It's not just a law in a particular fiefdom.

Yes it is acceptable to call people on their moral failings, but their working at Uber isn't a moral failing - it's a job.

When BP spewed oil all over the ocean, did you track down their employees and point out what horrible people they were? Or how about Yahoo, when they acknowledged their breach and admitted doing nothing about it for years, did you demand that everyone at Yahoo jump ship?

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#59

Post by flukus »

goseeastarwar wrote: post #37
redthrowaway wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an insane reaction. There is literally no other charge for which "I would like to see supporting evidence of this claim" is somehow problematic.

It's really not when you realize these aren't extraordinary claims. Those that wish to distract from the industry's systemic issues insist on evidence.

> Those that wish to distract from the industry's systemic issues insist on evidence

Yes, because it would be nice to know if it really was a systemic issue before wasting time and energy fixing it. "It's totally an issue, trust me" isn't worth acting on.

Re: Silicon Valley programmers pressure friends to quit working at Uber

#60

Post by DougN7 »

synicalx wrote: post #33

What even goes through these people's heads when they post crap like this? Do they really, genuinely, expect people to quit what is probably a secure and well paying job, because they've decided they don't like Uber any more? Have we really reached this level of arrogance? Financial and family responsibilities be damned! I read a news article that said Uber didn't give everyone participation awards and gold stars! Wh…

The internet (and social justice warriors in particular) are a huge example of group think/mobs today. It's impossible to predict what the hot button topic will be in six months, but I guarantee everyone will act like it's always been an obviously major issue. Even though nobody thinks so now.
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