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I am an Uber survivor

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Re: I am an Uber survivor

#641

Post by daveguy »

uberengineer123 wrote: post #633
int_19h wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could do one thing to prove the point about not defending leadership and not standing up for this kind of bullshit right away. It sounds like "Mike #2" ought to be sufficiently unambiguous for Uber employees to identify, so can you name that person?

There are nearly 2000 engineers at Uber, with people coming and going every week. I'm not even sure I know the /team/ the author is writing about. Practicality aside, how stupid do you think I would have to be to start a massive witchhunt against somebody who has had allegations made against them by an anonymous person?

> Practicality aside, how stupid do you think I would have to be to start a massive witchhunt against somebody who has had allegations made against them by an anonymous person?

They weren't talking to you they were talking to the person who asked for the witch hunt.

Although somebody does know exactly who this is and never should have let it slide. Those of you with your head down, it's time to go over your boss's head and say something.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#642

Post by mememachine »

xapata wrote: post #623
mememachine wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didnt read this one, I read the first one, and in the first they were a victim for sure. If you want to project some ulterior motive onto me, go for it. Don't pretend its got anything to do with what I actually think, though.

"Projecting" is psychological jargon describing the act of ascribing one's own feelings or motivations to another. Since I don't have an ulterior motive, perhaps you are projecting?

rofl ok dude

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#643

Post by loopdoend »

pfooti wrote: post #598
tyre wrote: post #210

I'm really happy she felt comfortable doing this. What an incredibly brave and strong person—I can't imagine what she must be feeling. What I really want to see is the other 20 men on her team tell their bosses to cut that shit out. We cannot rely on the abused to stand up for themselves; for every one who does there are thousands who cannot. It is on every one of us to report abhorrent behaviour, even if we think so…

This is the part that really hits me. When, in a meeting, Mike#2 says to "stop being a whiny little bitch", and he's not fired on the spot, something is not just wrong with Mike#2, something is systemically wrong . I don't work in Regular Tech (I'm in a teacher-education nonprofit), so I'm not as exposed to the SV bro culture. I'd like to think I'd speak up and fight for people who are marginalized in my workplace. I…

Let's not make excuses by blaming this on something like a widely-spread yet widely-derided culture. This behaviour is inexcusable, there is no excuse here. If you see something like this, as a man, you say something, and you stand up for your coworker. Otherwise, you lose your man license.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#644

Post by _xhok »

Social justice fundamentally needs an economic basis to stand on. If you want to stop sexual harassment, install a financial penalty.

* The internet was supposed to democratize this stuff. People like Balaji Srinivasan say the FDA should be replaced with Yelp for drugs. Why isn't Glassdoor more effective? Why wasn't Uber's toxic work culture public knowledge, gorgeously pinned to the top of Google's search results?

* When people like Mike interrupt meetings to tell his subordinates not to be a "whiny little bitch," presumably it makes all the quiet, thoughtful people in the room teem with unease. Ideally every instance of this adds a quantum of incentive for them to leave the company. How can that be encouraged?

* Do unions offer any protections to a group of Uber engineers who decided tomorrow to just walk out together?

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#646

Post by Retric »

rl3 wrote: post #535
rodgerd wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the best lawyers. Uber have already started contacting anyone who knows Susan Fowler, digging for dirt on her.

> Uber have already started contacting anyone who knows Susan Fowler, digging for dirt on her. What a fantastic opportunity to send those assholes on a wild goose chase. Even better if they can somehow feed Uber bullshit that they later end up hanging themselves with.

That's risky, they don't need the truth they just need to be able to defend a liable suit.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#647

Post by gkya »

specialist wrote: post #635
gkya wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two cases are incomparable. What happened to Eich was injustice, as in a democratic state, he is (read: is supposed to be) free about supporting whatever idea he wants. We might not like it, yet "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." What happened was hypocrisy pure, and OkCupid got some positive PR from the situation. In a world where this sort of stuff works, we'll…

So. Eich funding discrimination is free speech, whereas OK Cupid blocking his browser is not. Because why? Aside: great insights into the victimhood mentality of the free speech zealots. https://psmag.com/on-the-milo-bus-with-the-lost-boys-of-amer...

There's no discrimination issue here. Just like one can support a given law, they can oppose it too. OK Cupid's move has nothing to do with free speech at all, and I believe in neither the sincerity nor the aptness thereof. Eich's actions were legal, peasurable or not, and within the protection of basic human rights.

(WRT same-sex marriage issue, I believe that civil unions should replace all kinds of marriage we've today and it should be left to the individuals to decide what their partnership(s) mean to them, wrt their philosophical/religious stances.)

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#648

Post by Op54256 »

ForHackernews wrote: post #434
uptownfunk wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I've watched too much Suits and The Good Wife, but it just seems that it's all futile. They're a huge corp, if you file suit against them they'll hit back harder with bigger and badder lawyers, and you either settle out of court, or play the lotto with the court system and try your hand at a judgement with whatever lawyers you can afford. It's really sad how stacked the odds seem.

Uber is sitting on billions of dollars of VC money. I'm sure that there are some very high-powered law firms out there salivating at the chance to represent these women in a class-action lawsuit. Maybe the victims won't get as much recompense as they deserve (because so much of the judgement will go to attorneys), but I would not be so sure that Uber will have them outgunned in court. At the very least, it could teac…

$3 billion is from the Saudi sovereign fund..

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#649

Post by tasty_freeze »

I can only imagine that the bulk of the employees at Uber in that room with her were young and still intoxicated by startup success to allow Mike#2 to say things like that.

I am 12 years away from the valley, but was at half a dozen startups in 20 years prior and I can't remember ever being on a team that would have put up with a manager saying something like that to a coworker.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#650

Post by DaveWalk »

_xhok wrote: post #644

Social justice fundamentally needs an economic basis to stand on. If you want to stop sexual harassment, install a financial penalty. * The internet was supposed to democratize this stuff. People like Balaji Srinivasan say the FDA should be replaced with Yelp for drugs. Why isn't Glassdoor more effective? Why wasn't Uber's toxic work culture public knowledge, gorgeously pinned to the top of Google's search results? *…

A very good set of prompts, thanks for taking the time to think of them. - On Glassdoor: I assume it's mostly-anonymous replies are an issue. Has anyone verified what is posted there, say comparing it to official data or something? You're of course right that it's a place to start. I'm more troubled by the lack of sleuthing done before accepting an offer to uncover the blindingly obvious problems.

-How to encourage others to call out bad behavior? I don't see an easy answer there. The power differential is still there. If a VP humiliates a subordinate, another subordniate may not have the power to change behavior. Ideally a complaint goes up to the VP level and a discussion is had there (or higher).

- On unions: I've heard this passed around for years, most famously when Steve Jobs's posthumous testimony was in that hiring/collusion lawsuit. I think it's mostly an academic issue at this point similar to other pre-union industries: it's a challenge getting highly-paid employees to favor organizing (and possibly a lower wage) for the benefits.

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