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Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

berkshirehathaway.com

251–260 of 324 posts

Re: Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

#251
post #23
post #4

"In Berkshire’s 2005 annual report, I argued that active investment management by professionals – in aggregate – would over a period of years underperform the returns achieved by rank amateurs who simply sat still. I explained that the massive fees levied by a variety of “helpers” would leave their clients – again in aggregate – worse off than if the amateurs simply invested in an unmanaged low-cost index fund. ” He…

I would argue that index funds make the most sense for most millionaires these days, too. For the most part, if a hedge fund is actually worth investing in (and there are quite a few), only institutions will have the capital to play.

Actually having a giant amount of money to throw at a hedge fund is counterproductive. In order to invest all that money, a greater number of investments will need to be made. And the more investments one makes, the more likely it is for them to revert to the mean, performance-wise.

It's a simplification, but if a hedge fund manager finds a fantastic investment for $100mn, but they have $100bn to invest, they have to be able to repeat that feat over and over and over and over.

Re: Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

#252
post #248
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if a hedge fund is actually worth investing in (and there are quite a few) Apparently it is hard to come up with a collection of 5 of them that would beat the S&P 500 over 10 years. At least Buffett had a hard time finding counterparties for a bet.

RenTec, D.E. Shaw, Baupost, Bridgewater, Farallon, off the top of my head. There are others. I agree that it's hard to find firms that beat the market over long terms but it's not quite that difficult. Much like other very difficult but not impossible things in life, it is very difficult but not impossible to beat the market for long periods of time. It's fair to say that most people, millionaires included, should go…

Are you willing to bet $1,000 that those funds will, in aggregate, beat VTSMX over the next 10 years?

It's easy to pick the winners in hindsight. Buffett put $1mm on a bet that it's hard to do it beforehand. If Protege partners couldn't do it with $1mm on the line, what makes you so convinced that you can?

Re: Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

#253
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that index funds make the most sense for most millionaires these days, too. For the most part, if a hedge fund is actually worth investing in (and there are quite a few), only institutions will have the capital to play.

Actually having a giant amount of money to throw at a hedge fund is counterproductive. In order to invest all that money, a greater number of investments will need to be made. And the more investments one makes, the more likely it is for them to revert to the mean, performance-wise. It's a simplification, but if a hedge fund manager finds a fantastic investment for $100mn, but they have $100bn to invest, they have to…

Yes I'm aware of that, but it doesn't change the reality that hedge funds have an incentive to have more money from fewer investors, even if they have to be careful not to take on too much money overall.

Re: Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

#254
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point, under the rubric "institutions girdling trust". Quite relevant as a set of innovations in the time when people started having to do business with strangers, particularly ones with different ecological positions. You can imagine having lived in agricultural societies there would be a big question of how exactly you're going to have a business relationship with say a factory owner or delivery comp…

Didn't the UK mainly copy them from the Netherlands?

Another thread is that a lot of ingredients originated in different places in Europe, thanks to political fragmentation.

- Mass production: Venetian arsenal

- Central Bank: Sweden

- The word Bourse: a certain family in Belgium

- Political philosophy: lots of places

- Coal and steel production, factories: Northern France, Belgium

- Religious freedom: rather bloody wars still in living memory

Re: Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible to me that so many Americans below have reconfigured their relationship to slavery with a narrative such that they have even more pride in their country since it succeeded in spite of slavery, not because of it. It's incredible. As a foreigner, I feel like I'm witnessing the payoff some absolutely top-notch patriotic propaganda.

I'm 7 or 8 generations removed from American slavery. I don't have a relationship to it.

Then you clearly don't look much at the world around you, or you would see the obvious link between this past from generations ago and the way current society is shaped. If this particular shape of society that resulted from the many years of slavery doesn't seem to affect you personally, then it means it affects you positively, because it certainly affects others negatively.

Re: Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

#256
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RenTec, D.E. Shaw, Baupost, Bridgewater, Farallon, off the top of my head. There are others. I agree that it's hard to find firms that beat the market over long terms but it's not quite that difficult. Much like other very difficult but not impossible things in life, it is very difficult but not impossible to beat the market for long periods of time. It's fair to say that most people, millionaires included, should go…

Are you willing to bet $1,000 that those funds will, in aggregate, beat VTSMX over the next 10 years? It's easy to pick the winners in hindsight. Buffett put $1mm on a bet that it's hard to do it beforehand. If Protege partners couldn't do it with $1mm on the line, what makes you so convinced that you can?

Sure, I'll take that bet absolutely.

It's a little reductive to use "past performance is not an indication of future gains" as an argument. If you extrapolate that with the premises that I am using (namely, that it is possible to intentionally and consistently beat the market), there is no reason to have faith in the continued investment in anything, private or public, because you cannot use any past measure of success as guidance. But I don't care about the success in of itself, I care about the cause of that success, and intrinsically I believe there is a cause.

Facebook has done well since its IPO. But since we're throwing out its past performance entirely, we shouldn't consider it a sound investment. Venture capitalists shouldn't have faith in Uber or Snapchat, because its past performance as a private company means nothing going forward. Real estate is not a sound investment because eventually there will be another market correction. And so on and so forth.

Except there are sound arguments for investing in each of those examples (please don't nitpick them specifically...) because people naturally view their respective success as a function of purposeful action. I view certain hedge funds as possessing the same capability for success.

Ultimately, entropy consumes every existing phenomenon we can observe. What we define as "consistent success" is only coherent over slices of time for anything, not just the ability to forecast the market. The only reason why we continue to invest in anything is because we believe that someone at the helm of past success can continue to pull it off in the future. Every streak must necessarily come to an end, whether it's competing as an elite athlete or being the dominant technology company or forecasting market movements.

So yes, I'd absolutely take that bet. I don't believe in EMH; I believe that past success for firms like those has been caused by skill and strategy, which is repeatable until fundamental things change (industries evolve, markets evolve, successful managers retire, etc). I definitely believe that firms like Renaissance Technologies will continue to print money in the future because they have a profitable methodology for doing so, unless something changes. Because I do not believe the success is due to chance, this wager becomes more a question of whether or not I believe the skilled management of these firms will change in the near future or whether the market itself will fundamentally make their strategies untenable. For most of them, I'm confident in another ten years of superlative performance.

All successful investing begins with observing, modeling and capitalizing on market inefficiencies. You can do this with real estate, business ownership, securities, etc. It is clear to me that there are hedge fund managers who are playing an entirely different game than the unprofitable ones the media fixates on. They are similar only in name, but it's like the difference between counting cards and gambling. These are managers who can identify, through their own insight or the aggregate insight of their firms, inefficiencies esoteric enough that they are extremely difficult to find, but useful enough that they can be profitably traded on.

EDIT: I forgot you asked me a specific question...the reason why I feel confident taking on this bet when Protege Partners, LLC is losing is because I'm choosing a small, specific subset of the hedge fund industry that I believe in for the reasons explained above. In contrast, Buffett and Protege's bet is over a basket of funds, a "portfolio of funds of hedge funds." I am not arguing with you that most of the hedge fund industry is crap, just as I wouldn't argue that most people who start tech companies fail. I'm betting on the outliers.

If anyone can just log onto Long Bets and do this I'm happy to take the bet with you immediately.

Re: Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

#257
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prop shops still have owners. They are the investors. There is no such thing as an investment without an investor.

You're now litigating the literal definition of a prop trading firm. Nobody is arguing that you shouldn't start a prop trading firm. The argument is that you shouldn't invest in hedge funds, because passive investment funds outperform them. If you want to make money in active investment, join or form a prop firm. The broader point would be, the market can probably function based on passive investment and inputs from…

No, join or start a hedge fund and take the fees from the investors. That's how you make money actively trading.

Re: Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

#258
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While he didn't use the words "suck", he did say it was a "mess". http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/01/10/donald-trump-the-st...

That is magnitudes different than saying the american people suck. Lets try not to put words in peoples mouth, thats how we divide people.

> we divide people.

Can someone please explain what this even means? I've seen this used as a thought terminating cliche for far too long for it to make sense anymore.

Re: Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

#259
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prop shops still have owners. They are the investors. There is no such thing as an investment without an investor.

You're now litigating the literal definition of a prop trading firm. Nobody is arguing that you shouldn't start a prop trading firm. The argument is that you shouldn't invest in hedge funds, because passive investment funds outperform them. If you want to make money in active investment, join or form a prop firm. The broader point would be, the market can probably function based on passive investment and inputs from…

I literally made this point earlier. I even used the word literally to indicate I meant it literally.

> Nobody is arguing that you shouldn't start a prop trading firm.

I disagree. People are absolutely arguing that nobody should start a prop firm because you can't beat the market. That the prop funds that succeed are just those that have gotten lucky in the short term. That everybody should put their money in index funds instead. I know you don't believe this, but it's a common belief for sure.

I think that if all retail investors and all institutional investors exclusively invest in passive funds the market will get out of whack. We're talking about all pension funds, university endowments, private trusts, all moving to index funds. All households together own about 80% of the stock market (direct + indirect ownership). Hedge funds another 4%. Prop trading firms probably less than 1%. There are over 3500 publicly listed US equities and another 10,000 OTC. Deep analysis on every equity is needed to determine if it is fairly valued; no way prop firms can take on this gargantuan task by themselves.

Not to mention that index funds are long-only. Very few hedge funds are. If almost everybody moved to index funds the long-only bias by itself could be disastrous.

Re: Warren Buffett's Annual Letter to Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders [pdf]

#260
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal view of using Wealthsimple is a stepping stone, I've realise that I've throw away money to the banks with higher then needed MERs and Wealthsimple provide a easy way of transferring my money in and saving money now. When my portfolio is larger and I'm seeing a higher cost with them VS doing it myself I'll look into buying ETFs myself. The lowest bank mutual fund in Canada that I've seen in from Tangerine…

> The lowest bank mutual fund in Canada that I've seen in from Tangerine at ~1% MER, are there ones lower? Without having to handle rebalancing yourself? AFAIK then Wealthsimple and Tangerine are already the lowest you'll find without working with ETFs or index funds directly.

FWIW Vanguard has a 0.3% AUM option here in the US now. I assume their Canadian counterpart offers something similar?
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