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Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

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Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#451

Post by ptaipale »

estomagordo wrote: post #326
yummyfajitas wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more relevant question is whether immigrants are making Sweden more dangerous than it would otherwise be. It's possible that Sweden became safer because Swedes commit fewer crimes, and this decrease outweighed a crime increase caused by immigrants. Crime-by-nationality data would help resolve this question. Why is the Swedish government hiding it?

Every criminologist, relevant government institution or agency already knows that immigrants are over-represented in crime. I'm not sure what would be learned and what strategies would change if one were to learn exactly how that over-representation looks today.

Generally, an analysis for how to solve a problem starts with finding out and admitting the facts. The steadfast refusal in this case is actually worsening the situation because it is creating distrust in government.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#452

Post by ptaipale »

Exofunctor wrote: post #430
kaveh_h wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you believe a majority are religious fundementalist is bias

Pew research does per-country religious belief surveys. I think you will find it very enlightening to look up the religious beliefs of the average Syrian.

Can you give a link to the results?

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#453

Post by ptaipale »

sailingparrot wrote: post #249
nmeofthestate wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, except some immigration adds to the number of people in poverty, so avoiding immigration that does that would address poverty and by extension crime. This is reasonable, unless the theory is that when an immigrant arrives in Sweden, a person already in poverty gets 'promoted' and the immigrant takes their poverty space, thus keeping poverty levels constant.

One of the reason Sweden is welcoming migrants is because the birth rate is becoming really low, so there is need for new workers paying taxes. They are accepting more poors (and by extension statistically more crime-prone) people today, to hopefully have a still sane and stable economy in the future (thus with less poors).

> One of the reason Sweden is welcoming migrants is because the birth rate is becoming really low, so there is need for new workers paying taxes.

People have a hard time believing that because the current migration does not bring in more but less working people - the migrants have a worse dependency ratio than native population, i.e. the proportion of migrants who have a job is lower than proportion of people already in country. Among OECD countries, migrants in Sweden have the largest difference in dependency ratio to native population.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#454

Post by pbhjpbhj »

DanBC wrote: post #294
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reports of youths stoning firemen are in the newspaper every couple of months in my UK city. Firemen report it as truth too, it has been specifically mentioned when I've visited fire stations (Scout visits). The youths are never charged from what I can tell, the police just disperse them. I assume this means the incidents don't go in to crime statistics. That's one way of "bringing down violent crime", don't arrest t…

> my UK city > That's one way of "bringing down violent crime", don't arrest the perps It is overly cynical. The UK has two sets of crime statistics: police recorded crime and the annual crime survey. Even the police recorded crime stats (which aren't regarded as statistically reliable) don't only rely on arrests, but include all reported crimes. So police arresting or not wouldn't affect the numbers. But the annual…

TIL Dan, thanks.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#455

Post by lngnmn »

k_swden wrote: post #374
lngnmn wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is plainly wrong. Socioeconomic factors are not the major ones. Culture, habits and social conditioning in general are. People who do not share (or even comprehend) the shared values of other cultures have no respect to them and perceive others as "aliens". This works both ways. The cultural incompatibility and different social conditioning are the major factors. Basically, well-educated people of any origin wou…

First you state socioeconomic factors are not major factor, but then you go on saying "well-educated people of any origin would behave more or less similarly", but socioeconomic factors are: income, EDUCATION and occupation, ergo you're contradicting yourself or you have no clue what socioeconomic factors are.

Yes, you are right, I have messed it up a little. What I have tried to say is that there are major and minor factors, and the major ones, with highest weights, so to speak, are cultural instead of economical, and I will keep my stand.

A culture, which is a set of shared values, views and behavioral patterns, defines a person more than just his income. Occupation is important, (think of the castes of India) but the modern world a truck driver could be a physicist or a philosopher could make and sell sandwiches.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#456

Post by ptaipale »

ptaipale wrote: post #149
zond wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The swedish government has no censorship powers.

It's not that simple. There's a lot happening on this front, and when the government controls a substantial part of the economy, they have effective censorship powers even when they're not actually burning books. National economist Tino Sanandaji has been writing about how BRÅ (Brottsförebyggande rådet) has ceased to make statistics about immigration-rateld crime, for political reasons. He published a book about this…

Just in case someone is interested, here is Tino Sanandaji's piece on this, published today.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/445237/sweden-crime-ra...

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#457

Post by fpig »

dagenleg wrote: post #295
fpig wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I assume you found the worst article you could remember, and even in this article you can at least see traces of journalistic integrity that is completely absent in RT: > But it is a jump from that to suggesting Gaddafi is supplying troops with it to encourage mass rape. > US ambassador Susan Rice has also said, without offering evidence, that Iran was helping Syria to suppress dissent That's some serious mental g…

And Russia was the one who shielded Snowden after his leaks went public. It does not make Putin a valiant defender of the freedom of the press, does it now? I have seen bending of the truth happening in all major media outlets ever since I started following them, and I honestly don't want to get drawn into the measuring contest of "which newspaper lies the worst" right now. Especially since due to the absence of good…

It's not nitpicking at all.

Even in the worst example you could cherry-pick for the Guardian, the journalist just reported on something a US official said and explicitly distanced themselves from the more ridiculous claims. This makes them as bad as RT? Ridiculous. The Guardian constantly heavily criticizes their own government, the US government, etc. They are clearly not tools of the people in power.

RT on the other hand just does whatever is in the interest of the Russian government. The only reason it even exists is to try to push narratives favorable for the Russian government to a western audience. They're just a tool.

It requires some serious personal bias in order to see the two papers as the same.

Snowden/Putin is irrelevant as Snowden leaking that stuff was favorable for Putin. At the same time, the Guardian publishing it was not favorable for their government.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#458

Post by facepalm »

tomlock wrote: post #440
facepalm wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "willing to take into account"? Male or poor, the problem is still that if immigration imports many male and/or poor, crime levels rise.

>But it should be possible to take that [being a man] into account statistically. So why not take being an immigrant "into account statistically"? It seems like the anti-PC folk have some things they think we should be PC about and take into account (like being a man) while being an immigrant is fair game. It doesn't make any sense to blame crime on one demographic factor, and ignore the others. Its a matter of anti-…

By "take into account" I meant it should be possible to statistically distinguish the factors of being male and being male+immigrant. So that it can be seen if being male is really the only factor driving increase of crime.

As for male criminal citizens, they should be sent to jail. In any case, as I mentioned before, they are already citizens, so the state has a special obligation towards them.

The point is also not to consider every immigrant a criminal just because some of them are, but to deal with life in one's country. If for example you could devise a test that would tell with 100% certainty if an immigrant will become a good, law-abiding citizen, a lot of immigration discussions would become a lot easier.

Btw suppose your suggestion would be followed, and male citizens would be deported because they are such a high risk for crime. Who would do the deporting? The world feminist army? Or should men just pack up and leave by themselves, admitting their own tendency to become criminals?

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#459

Post by dEnigma »

dracht wrote: post #422
dEnigma wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said that? Was it by any chance Mr. Strawman? I'm pretty sure most proponents of diversity would agree that some black-majority or muslim-majority countries could use some diversity as well. But acknowledging this would destroy the "white genocide" narrative, wouldn't it?

I had a hard long think and I don't recall anyone making a plea for immigration in non-white countries. The Japanese wishing to keep their country filled with Japanese is not seen as a problem to be solved. The white farmers being marginalized in Zimbabwe and butchered in South Africa certainly didn't raise concern with the diversity aficionados either.

Well, I certainly don't have any hard data on this, so the point might be moot. When I think about it, you are probably right in saying that most people who argue for racial and cultural diversity are mostly thinking about western, white-majority countries. On the other hand I tend to think that they would also care for diversity in e.g. the Middle East or Japan, if one were to point the problem out to them. I might be wrong there though, since at least your experience seems to be different.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#460

Post by Exofunctor »

ptaipale wrote: post #452
Exofunctor wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pew research does per-country religious belief surveys. I think you will find it very enlightening to look up the religious beliefs of the average Syrian.

Can you give a link to the results?

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi... (no Syria data)

http://english.dohainstitute.org/file/Get/40ebdf12-8960-4d18...

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