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Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

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Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#421

Post by cancancan »

piva00 wrote: post #40
koonsolo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as in Belgium then. They even throw stones at fire-fighters when they are doing their job. So nothing to worry about, right? And I don't know if it is the same in Sweden, but you are not really politically allowed to say what kind of people live in those neighborhoods. So again, nothing to worry about.

No, not like that at the fucking all. I live in Stockholm, I just came today to my home from a friend's place that is in one of these pesky little maps marking it as a "no-go zone". Seriously, there's nothing alarming there at all, it's a very normal area a little bit outside the center with more affordable housing (compared to the center of Stockholm but not even near "cheap") and that's about it. I've stayed on tha…

Car burning seems to be a hobby in Sweden these days. A few days ago police arrested a suspect on a drug charge in Rinkeby and five hour riots erupted. Torching cars, looting businesses, throwing rocks at police, beating up journalists. How Swedish of them.

Same thing in August last year in Husby (a suburb in northern Stockholm), 47 cars torched. Same suburb that saw the same violent riots and more than 100 cars torched in May 2013.

Was there a single riot like that in Sweden that does not involve immigrants? Were there any honor killings that don't involve immigrants from specific part of the world?

Simmilar pattern can be observed in France too.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#422

Post by dracht »

dEnigma wrote: post #323
nolepointer wrote: post #234

Remember, everyone: It is only white-majority countries that are in need of immigration and diversity. Why? Um, well ... just because!

Who said that? Was it by any chance Mr. Strawman? I'm pretty sure most proponents of diversity would agree that some black-majority or muslim-majority countries could use some diversity as well. But acknowledging this would destroy the "white genocide" narrative, wouldn't it?

I had a hard long think and I don't recall anyone making a plea for immigration in non-white countries. The Japanese wishing to keep their country filled with Japanese is not seen as a problem to be solved. The white farmers being marginalized in Zimbabwe and butchered in South Africa certainly didn't raise concern with the diversity aficionados either.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#423

Post by dragonwriter »

turc1656 wrote: post #412
dragonwriter wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But "adjusting" for things is usually a way for people to get the result they want with the numbers. The government does this all the time with "seasonal adjustments" to housing and employment data. There never appears to be any rhyme or reason to the adjustments other than getting a better/desired number. While "adjusting" may be used for misleading purposes, government seasonal adjustments generally used a disclo…

I disagree. That link shows no formulas whatsoever, just a generalized explanation of what they do. Without a hard set of rules to follow, it's useless. Also, looking into the X-13 ARIMA software documentation, it looks similar to other statistical software packages like Eviews, which I have used in the past. This methodology they follow still highly subjective based on the parameters used in the model. This is very…

> I disagree. That link shows no formulas whatsoever, just a generalized explanation of what they do.

I said the link was a general overview of seasonal adjustment used in data series by the BLS, and that they provide additional detail the about the specific methodology used in specific series elsewhere.

But the key part from that summary relevant to your comment upthread is that not only are the specific methodologies for particular series published in advance, but the resulting adjustment factors for future time periods are determined and published in advance, before the data to be adjusted exists.

One may disagree with the methodology or the figures, but neither is the methodology opaque nor are the factors chosen to get desired results (since the actual raw data, and thus the factors necessary to get produce desired results, are not available.)

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#424

Post by kaveh_h »

alkonaut wrote: post #334
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it seems that whilst immigrants are suspected of more crimes than average, they commit the same amount of crime as poor deprived members of indigenous populations. "Commit the same level of crime as the subset of the population who commit the highest level of crime" does not sound very reassuring.

If immigrants in a certain area/age/education level/income level commit fewer crimes than the corresponding group of natives that would be surprising.

That would exclude "no go zones" as they are inhabitated by the poorest AKA immigrants, and very few Swedes.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#426

Post by lngnmn »

sailingparrot wrote: post #241
lngnmn wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is obvious - poor but educated people are different from poor and uneducated. To lift people out of misery and poverty is what education is for in the first place. In countries like India that could be clearly seen. Poverty alone does not account for the behavioral patterns. Education is the key. People knew this since antiquity, independently of a particular civilization - Indians knew this, Chinese knew this, yo…

In many country, including France where issues similar to sweden exists, the quality of the education you receive is directly correlated with the median wealth of your neighborhood. Poor suburbs have way worse education than rich ones.

Education is not only about academic knowledge per se. It is also a set of habits of self-control, acquired skills, social behavior patterns and transformed perceptions. This is what we call conditioning or exposure to certain culture.

Street kids, usually members of a gang, who never have experienced transforming influence of the culture of a good school and a good teacher are definitely not the same as those who vent through one.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#427

Post by dracht »

arximboldi wrote: post #259
ahoka wrote: post #214

"Sweden needs immigration to compensate for the decline in numbers of babies being born here." Is this really a problem with the increasing levels of automation?

You can't automate elderly care.

Immigration to solve an ageing population, i.e. a population that is not experiencing constant growth, is a pyramid scheme.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#428

Post by anjc »

paublyrne wrote: post #395
anjc wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sets the no-go zones apart in places like Sweden is that, not only are they filled with poor unemployed people, but those people have a different ideology and come from third world countries, and therefore the crimes perpetrated are different from that of the indigenous population. There isn't even a street in Dublin in which that's the case. There are certainly places in Dublin where you might be more likely to…

but beaten up for drinking alcohol or walking as a white person with a Muslim girl? And where are you suggesting such a place does exist? In Sweden? If you have any links to reports of incidents like you're describing I'd love to see them.

I've seen scores of videos on Youtube showing that these attacks, if not normal, do happen at least in Sweden. You can read the stats in the thread again for proof, or search for videos yourself if you don't believe the stats.

And I can anecdotally state that I've witnessed attacks first hand in Muslim areas in both Belgium and France due to ideological reasons (e.g. a girl in my party was assaulted because she touched a man's arm and apparently shouldn't have). I've lived in the worst parts of Dublin and yeah, problems can arise, but they're non-ideological ones. Which means that you can avoid them by using general street smarts.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#429

Post by edblarney »

usrusr wrote: post #402
edblarney wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and others in the population was due to differences in the socioeconomic conditions in which they grew up in Sweden." This is a classic red-herring. 'They were poor therefore they have bad behaviours'. The failure of the logic is the assumption of correlation/causation. One might argue that 'bad behaviour will lead one to being poor'. I have no dou…

Taking about Belgium, I often suspect that they have an extra level of difficulty there due to the bifurcated national identity. What identity could newcomers assimilate into? You won't be particularly drawn to feeling Wallonian if you live in Brussels speaking French and even less to feeling Flandrian. I guess there isn't much Belgianness left if you are neither, so people are more or less predispositioned to stick…

Agree on Belgian. Belgian is a 'nation' but the ethnic identity is Walloon or Flemish.

I live in Montreal and immigrants have the same problem: English or French? There is a 3rd category here (we use linguistic categories) - called 'Allophone' - meaning essentially neither English nor French, but 'multi' or 'something else'.

Despite the self-loathing of the past few generations - Germans are generally very German. A flag is a national symbol, not an ethnic one. Even the Nazis didn't use the flag of Germany - totally unnecessary!

'American' is not an ethnicity. All Americans have is the 'idea' of America. Which is represented by the flag.

In a way - 'nationalism' is more essential and necessary in a place like America.

Germany would be German with or without even the state of Germany.

America would disintegrate without national symbols.

In Canada - we are less nationalist because we are a British colony. Canadians had British passports up until very recently, just before I was born!

Mass migration is a new issue for Germany though - if it were just a few immigrants, it would be a non-issue. But the sheer scale of it makes it an existential issue, one that is akin to changing the Constitution - in fact - even stronger. A constitution can always be re-written. A nation can be rebuilt. But once a people decide that they are a 'nation' but not an ethnicity - and 'go multicultural' - there is no going back. I think that's a decision that should require a 'supermajority' vote type thing, not a decision made, de-facto in a 'crisis' policy by Merkel & Co. - obvious humanitarian issues notwithstanding.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#430

Post by Exofunctor »

kaveh_h wrote: post #413
Exofunctor wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out that religious fundamentalists don't integrate well is not a good example of "bias".

That you believe a majority are religious fundementalist is bias

Pew research does per-country religious belief surveys. I think you will find it very enlightening to look up the religious beliefs of the average Syrian.
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