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Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

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Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#401

Post by dragonwriter »

turc1656 wrote: post #392
alkonaut wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all semantics. Immigrants commit more crimes. Adjust for economic/social factors and most of that disappears. So in one war they do and in others they don't. Statistics is hard and both sides use it to prove their point.

My point was simply that there is not agreement across the board that they commit more crimes. Yes, people are unscrupulous when it comes to statistics, that's definitely true. But "adjusting" for things is usually a way for people to get the result they want with the numbers. The government does this all the time with "seasonal adjustments" to housing and employment data. There never appears to be any rhyme or reaso…

> But "adjusting" for things is usually a way for people to get the result they want with the numbers. The government does this all the time with "seasonal adjustments" to housing and employment data. There never appears to be any rhyme or reason to the adjustments other than getting a better/desired number.

While "adjusting" may be used for misleading purposes, government seasonal adjustments generally used a disclosed-in-advamce methodology with a clear purpose; they only seem to have no rhyme or reason if you don't bother to do even the most basic checking.

An overview of seasonal adjustment at the Bureau of Labor Statistics is available at [0], and more detailed information about the specific methodology and factors used in particular series are readily available.

[0] https://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpisahoma.htm

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#402

Post by usrusr »

edblarney wrote: post #194
gaff33 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They talk about it in the article > People from foreign backgrounds are suspected of crimes more often than people from a Swedish background [...] In a later study, researchers at Stockholm University showed that the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and others in the population was due to differences in the socioeconomic conditions in which they grew up in Sweden. So it seems that whil…

"the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and others in the population was due to differences in the socioeconomic conditions in which they grew up in Sweden." This is a classic red-herring. 'They were poor therefore they have bad behaviours'. The failure of the logic is the assumption of correlation/causation. One might argue that 'bad behaviour will lead one to being poor'. I have no dou…

Taking about Belgium, I often suspect that they have an extra level of difficulty there due to the bifurcated national identity. What identity could newcomers assimilate into? You won't be particularly drawn to feeling Wallonian if you live in Brussels speaking French and even less to feeling Flandrian. I guess there isn't much Belgianness left if you are neither, so people are more or less predispositioned to stick to whatever parody of their original background they can still piece together.

I sense a similar difficulty in my native Germany, where so much of the current national identity is defined by feeling bad for something your grandparents maybe did (or by violently refusing to do so), that the absence of it in non-descendants of that generation is causing a noticeable "identity gap" even generations after immigration. This kind of stuff causes zero problems for those who have goals and education and achievement, but everybody else occasionally leans on group identity and will take whatever fits best.

P.S. I've actually come tho think that whatever ridiculous (from the German perspective, yes, totally ridiculous, if not outright scary) business Americans do with flags does serve a purpose after all. It gives both established and new Americans confidence that the new ones can belong, easing the process for everyone involved.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#403

Post by johansch »

coldsmoke wrote: post #394
johansch wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are however much, much more sane than the US alt-right. At least at the top level. Out of the eight parties currently represented in the Swedish parliament they are currently the most popular party, polling at 26.9%. Source: http://nyheteridag.se/nytt-sd-rekord-i-sentio-pa-otroliga-26...

According to one polling institute, yes. But in the others they are the third largest party at around 17 % which in it self is alarmingly high.[1] And Nyheter Idag is basically the Breitbart of Sweden. [1] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinionsm%C3%A4tningar_inf%C3%... (In Swedish, but the stats don't need translating. SD denotes the Sweden Democrats)

So why are you attacking the news site publishing these polls ? Are you saying that they are lying about the data?

Anyway, this is a good resource: http://status.st/

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#405

Post by MK999 »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #225
peteretep wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent comment stated that differences were due to culture and not baseline economic status. This is inspite of evidence. What alternative explanation - other than racism or ignorance - is there for that mistruth?

Culture != race.

Shouting "racism!" is a good way to shut down the discussion

Shouting "culture!" doesn't really work as well.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#406

Post by Paradigma11 »

rndgermandude wrote: post #227
freeflight wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The point is that a majority of all violence and sexual crimes is performed by immigrants Source please? Because the available data, at least for Germany, does not support this claim at all. Latest BKA report from first quarter of 2016 puts the amount of "offenses against sexual self-determination" for migrants at 1.10%. [1] As somebody who's lived over 10 years right next to Bavaria's biggest initial reception cent…

Not attempting to prove the grandparent right (because they are not), but the 1.1% figure is misleading. It's the portion of migrant crimes that are sex crimes, not the portion of sex crimes committed by migrants of the all sex crimes.

"The point is that a majority of all violence and sexual crimes is performed by immigrants" I definitely read that as "the portion of sex crimes committed by migrants of the all sex crimes".

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#407

Post by ptaipale »

pluma wrote: post #89
interfixus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your Twitter account, you seem ready enough to admit the reality of political violence, and even to commend it. (Retweet: "If US folks wanna see more nazi punching, just look at the attempted Pegida rally last year in Dublin. alt-hugs given freely")

By _protesters_ against other _protesters_. There's surely a difference between someone at a political rally being punched by someone with a different political opinion (especially by someone from the "black block", which largely serves to make these crimes harder to attach to a single individual), and LEOs or EMTs being attacked during routine circumstances.

I don't quite understand you. Are you saying that attacking political activists is more acceptable than attacking someone during "routine circumstances" (such as a pub brawl, I presume)?

I live in Finland, where our criminal code actually has a separate crime called "infringement of freedom to political activity", for threat of violence or endangering well-being of others who express their opinion, participate a demonstration or set up an association for peaceful political activity. So attacking someone at a political rally is a worse crime than a random violent attack.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#408

Post by dEnigma »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #398
dEnigma wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that google search supposed to be convincing? Because the first result is from "Frontpage mag", where the blog headlines at the moment are "Finally: English Language Declared Racist", "Nuclear Weapons Aren't Going Anywhere" and "Environmental Protesters Burn 7-Year-Old Boy, Cause $1.2 Mil in Damage". Seems to have a pretty clear agenda. The second result is from "Infowars", I suppose I don't have to tell you that…

Article by Die Welt - from that very same google search: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...

Thank you. That seems a lot more trustworthy, sadly there isn't a lot of information in that article.

There is also an Artikel in "Der Spiegel", now that I had a closer look[1]

Btw, I don't know on which page of the google search you found that link, but in my case it's not on the first two result pages. Well, that's the trouble with customized searches :)

[1] http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/schweden-polizei-verhe...

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#409

Post by alkonaut »

turc1656 wrote: post #392
alkonaut wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all semantics. Immigrants commit more crimes. Adjust for economic/social factors and most of that disappears. So in one war they do and in others they don't. Statistics is hard and both sides use it to prove their point.

My point was simply that there is not agreement across the board that they commit more crimes. Yes, people are unscrupulous when it comes to statistics, that's definitely true. But "adjusting" for things is usually a way for people to get the result they want with the numbers. The government does this all the time with "seasonal adjustments" to housing and employment data. There never appears to be any rhyme or reaso…

If you didn't adjust, and immigrants somehow still were convicted of fewer crimes then that would be truly astonishing since then the poor/unemployed immigrants would be committing vastly fewer crimes than the corresponding group among non-immigrants.

Doing these kinds of adjustments is not dishonest if done correctly and in these circumstances it's often absolutely necessary to produce useful stats.

How stats are to be massaged depends on what argument one tries to make though. There are valid arguments from uncontrolled data too.

An example could be e.g "the immigrants we allow in are going to be unemployed and poor which means we are going to get more crime, I don't want that so I'm against immigration" - this is an entirely valid argument to make from uncontrolled data.

This is a two step argument: immigrants are poor and poor people more criminal.

This is not the same as saying "immigrants commit more crimes" because if unqualified such a statement always assumes controlling for relevant factors.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#410

Post by ptaipale »

alkonaut wrote: post #356
ptaipale wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. There's a lot happening on this front, and when the government controls a substantial part of the economy, they have effective censorship powers even when they're not actually burning books. National economist Tino Sanandaji has been writing about how BRÅ (Brottsförebyggande rådet) has ceased to make statistics about immigration-rateld crime, for political reasons. He published a book about this…

Librarians are socialists and liberals to nearly 100% no surprise there. They also have a lot of autonomy in deciding what books to buy. And the fact that people from the Middle East would have more room to maneuver in discussions about racism without being accused of racism is hardly surprising.

Surely not all librarians are socialists, but e.g. this one appears to be of the more fact-resistant kind, and comes up with repeatedly different and increasingly funny explanations for why the library shouldn't get a bestseller book. The latest one is "it's not fact-checked", as if the other books in the library (like the mentioned Mein Kampf) were.
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