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White House Bars NYT, CNN, and Politico from Briefing

nytimes.com

271–280 of 407 posts

Re: White House Bars NYT, CNN, and Politico from Briefing

#271
post #221
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please name a news organization that was allowed to attend press conferences by Obama, then later banned because he didn't like what they had to say. edit: Since you won't be able to find one by Obama, how about any president in the last 50 years?

Obama had tried to do the same thing with Fox News. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-obamas-feud-with-fox-n... The difference in this case is how wildly inaccurate their reporting has been. Nearly everyday they're misrepresenting what President Trump has said, and sometimes they outright lie. It borders on hysteria. Which is ridiculous, because if they didn't ratchet everything up to 11, they could make serious…

The Obama feud with Fox News was heavily inflated by Fox News [1].

[1] http://www.mediaite.com/columnists/foxs-white-house-bans-fox...

Re: White House Bars NYT, CNN, and Politico from Briefing

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on if they start excluding organizations and lining up softballs from cranks.

TRUMP: Wait. Let's see. Who's -- I want to find a friendly reporter. QUESTION: Mr.... TRUMP: Are you a friendly reporter? Watch how friendly he is. Wait. Wait. Watch how friendly he is. Go ahead. a few minutes later, with a different reporter: TRUMP: Now, that's what I call a nice question. That is very -- who are you with? http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/politics/donald-trump-news-con...

I thought your comment was a joke at first glance, because I often make jokes in this format.

It's an actual transcript. I'm a little flabbergasted.

Re: White House Bars NYT, CNN, and Politico from Briefing

#273

I'm finding I'm having a hard time reconciling the current climate - not necessarily at his supporters (or the opposite), but just at how polar opposite everyone seems to be on this. For me, I see these organizations as not treating him poorly, but actually willing to call out things he is not being factual on. But at the same time, maybe I'm being biased against him. I want the discourse, but I'm just struggling to…

In our FPTP voting system, a two party system naturally emerges. And during times of hardship, instead of a middle-ground being found like would occur in a multiparty system, things become even more partisan and contentious. It's a fundamental facet of our political system, and won't ever change by using the political system. The political momentum needed is just too great.

It's not just FPTP. FPTP creates the two party system, but something else creates partisanship (as evidenced by numerous other countries that have FPTP and two parties, but they're nowhere near as diverged).

My theory is that what creates partisanship in US is primaries. It might sound counter-intuitive, but hear me out.

In the system without primaries, the candidates that run in general elections are decided through inner party politics, in which only party functionaries participate. Said functionaries generally wield influence proportionate to the amount of time they spent within that system, and they constantly fight each other for power and influence. Since they don't have to explain themselves to the voters in the process, ideological concerns are secondary to influence. Furthermore, because of how byzantine such systems can get, you get a lot of compromise and power sharing happening on all levels - and any functionary has to go through multiple levels to get to the point where they can contest for general election nominations, so they are well-conditioned in power sharing / compromise arrangements, and consider them natural.

This system naturally rewards more moderate politicians that are capable of such compromises, and sideline more extreme (ideologically pure) ones that might not compromise for the sake of ideology. So by the time the voters have their say, they usually pick between two moderates. Overall, the parties remain relatively close, with a lot of overlap on their respective moderate/centrist flanks.

Now consider what happens when you add primaries open to the voters (even if it's just registered party voters). On one hand, voters don't participate in the routine, day-to-day party politicking - they show up to vote once per cycle, and that's that. On the other hand, because primaries are perceived as less important than the general, the turnout bar is higher, and only the more motivated voters show up at all. These voters tend to be more extreme, because ideology is a strong motivator to vote, and comparatively fewer centrists/moderates feel strongly about their centrism. Thus, you get electorate that 1) is more towards the extreme end for the party, and 2) is not inclined to compromise or power share.

Now your candidates need to pander to that electorate in order to win the primaries and advance to the general. Initially, it wouldn't make that much of a difference, because embracing the extreme views becomes a detractor in the general - so long as parties remain close, moderates from either party can swing easily, and so it's important to both attract as many moderate voters as possible from the other party, and to not let your own moderate voters defect. However, there needs to be some pandering in the primaries, and so the rhetoric there becomes a bit more extreme - and the parties start slowly drifting apart.

And this becomes a positive feedback loop. As more extreme positions get gradually normalized, party platforms drift apart, and those stuck in the middle are forced to sort themselves out. At the same time, because of increasing distance, each party sees the other as more hostile, which drives more heated rhetoric that further promotes more extreme sentiments. A lot of it becomes less about policy rationalizations, and more about emotional appeal (just look at most of the arguments surrounding abortion today, and compare to the same 40 years ago).

This, in turn, decreases the utility of pandering to moderates in the general. Once parties are sufficiently far apart, most moderates will start voting for extremists in their own party over moderates in another party (even if they hold their nose). So the risk of pushing away your own moderates by adopting extreme views in the primary is reduced substantially, and at the same time the moderates from the other party are no longer a viable target demographic. At this point, primaries become a race to embrace more and more extreme politics, because whoever does it best moves on to the general. This accelerates the loop further.

The other aspect that I think plays into it is the desire of people to "belong". When parties are close, ideology matters less, and it's possible to self-identify with one of the parties while not adopting large parts of its platform - and, for that matter, the platforms themselves are much more vague and have fewer uncompromising points in them. But when the parties spin apart ideologically, and ideology itself becomes more prominent in party identification, there's a trend for people who initially joined the party because one of its positions to adopt its other positions as well, as a single ideological packet. So, for example, 40 years ago, someone might be a Democrat because it was a pro-labor and pro-union party (and they didn't really care about the rest); and another, because it was a pro-civil rights party (and they didn't really care about the rest); and so on.

But today, most members subscribe to most or all of these positions, with deviation on even one of them often seen as ideological betrayal, triggering a rejection response (all those labels like "RINO" or "Fox News liberal"). The resulting ideological packages aren't even particularly coherent - consider a triad of taxation, gun control and abortion for an example of seemingly unrelated things that have an extreme correlation today - and largely represent the amalgamation of ideas that parties acquired in their historical evolution. But because each package has so many "wedge" issues, their broad acceptance pretty much guarantees polarization in the electorate, because at least one, and often many, are strongly emotional. So for a Republican, the notion of compromising with a "baby murderer", for example, becomes unthinkable. And for a Democrat, the notion of compromising with someone who "denies the right of LGBT to exist" is unthinkable. And they both carry those concepts to their respective primaries, and elect such candidates that promise to be as hardline as possible in the ideological struggle against those unthinkables.

The worst part of all this is that it's not a problem that can be easily solved unilaterally. If a faction in one of the parties realizes that this all is not in our long-term advantage, and decides to dial its rhetoric down, it'll get hammered in the primaries. And if it manages to advance to the general, it will often get punished by partisans from its own side (either not showing up at all, or showing up to vote for some independent or third party "alternative candidates"), and lose to the other party that remained true to its partisans.

Same thing goes for cooperation and compromising after election. Because elected representatives have to contend with primaries, they cannot be seen as too weak, otherwise the partisans in their own party will throw them out as not sufficiently ideologically pure (again, "RINO" etc) and replace with hardliners, like Tea Party did in 2010. So the advantages from cooperation across party lines are diminished to the point where it basically stops altogether, and anything and everything becomes a straight party line vote. Partisanship defines politics in all respects: everything that is legal is fair game to stop, or at least frustrate, the other party, because you know they will do the same to you when it's their turn. To maximize the gains from a political victory (in terms of ability to push your ideological agenda) in such a system, you need to mercilessly steamroll over the opposition when you're the majority party, and obstruct as much as you can when you're the minority.

I think we're already in that endgame. Republicans have arrived here first, with the Tea Party. Democrats are now learning that this approach works best, the rules being what they are, and are adopting similar tactics. The inevitable outcome is complete deadlock of the government, with occasional bursts of frenzied activity when one party happens to take over both legislative chambers and the presidency (as seen currently), to cram as much as possible in while they can.

The only legitimate way out, so far as I can see, is to rewrite the rules. But it needs to apply to both parties at once to be effective, it can't be a unilateral attempt. So most likely we're talking about a revision of the electoral system here. A true proportional representation, or at least some sort of transferable vote, would make centrism more viable, and push the extremes back into the fringe. But such a revision is made extremely hard by the existing rules (it would probably take a constitutional amendment), and there will be considerable resistance from the partisans who would stand to lose political power in it.

Which means that the current dysfunction will continue until a truly major crisis breaks the system to the point where it can be rebooted.

Re: White House Bars NYT, CNN, and Politico from Briefing

#274
post #177

Barring the NYT is a shame. Not sure about Politico. CNN, on the other hand, has become a cesspool compared to its early days of reporting. Edit: Come on, HN. That downvote arrow doesn't mean "I disagree, politically". Let's not look like the Share Blue-infested mess that is /r/politics on Reddit.

I'm sure there are many who agree with your comment, we are simply less common. Too many keep quiet. In response to both the topic in hand and HN users down-voting w/e they disagree: "They have shut up all their fools in a house apart, to make sure that they are wise men themselves." - Dostoyevsky

You can paint yourself as the victim, but that doesn't make partisan attacks against actual news more accurate.

Re: White House Bars NYT, CNN, and Politico from Briefing

#275

if we're going to be honest, most are upset because they have an issue with trump to start with. after he was elected Trump did hour-long interviews with 60-minutes, ABC, O-Reily, and Hannity. Where's the outrage over that? Shouldn't equal time have been given to Dateline, CBS, Anderson Cooper, and Van Jones? Sooner or later there will be a real issue and most of us are going to tune it out because CNN/NYT/Others hav…

Granting long interviews is fundamentally different from access to briefings.

Re: White House Bars NYT, CNN, and Politico from Briefing

#276
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please name a news organization that was allowed to attend press conferences by Obama, then later banned because he didn't like what they had to say. edit: Since you won't be able to find one by Obama, how about any president in the last 50 years?

>The administration has taken increasing steps in recent weeks and months to isolate the TV network, with some Capitol Hill veterans recalling no such similar steps by any president since Richard Nixon’s retaliation against The New York Times and The Washington Post during Watergate. >“The point is this, and it really needs to be made: Fox is not just another television network,” said Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durb…

You cannot be serious.

Suggesting this is somehow equivalent is way off the mark, at best it is grasping for straws.

Trump not sitting down with MSNBC to discuss immigration would be equivalent. Barring media outlets is completely unprecedented, because we have freedom of the press in the United States.

Re: White House Bars NYT, CNN, and Politico from Briefing

#277

Ya, well the press's treatment of Trump has been a bit one sided. And well out of proportion to his actual comments and deeds. You might not like Trump, and you might have good reasons but the above is true all the same. And, he is sitting president of the USA right now, irrespective of how you feel about him, his platforms and his supporters. The amount of vitriol involving Trump is ridiculous. It really is. I'm not…

One sided. The side of truth and sanity. The man tells a steady stream of blatant lies. He doesn't even care if they're readily objectively disprovable. The media should have been shredding him like this for over a year now. That's literally their job. I have major, major differences with every one of his opponents in the primaries, but they're all reasonably sane and professional and I wouldn't be complaining terribly if any of them won(even the equally inexperienced Carson). Only Trump is a pathological liar with a total disregard for the institutions that have kept our country safe, prosperous, and democratic for two centuries. We're not overreacting. I have literally had an acquaintance who is a huge Trump supporter and annoyed at the protests tell me that maybe Trump should have the military run the country and then things would be a lot better. Normally I would have been shocked by that statement, but that seems to be pretty much par for the course in Trumpland.

Re: White House Bars NYT, CNN, and Politico from Briefing

#278

> Organizations allowed in included Breitbart News, the One America News Network and The Washington Times, all with conservative leanings. Journalists from ABC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, and Fox News also attended. I wonder if the message conveyed would be different if we rephrase it another way: > Organizations allowed in included ABC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal, and Bloomberg. Journalists from Brei…

Congratulations on burying the lede. Nowhere in the article's phrasing is an intent to mislead. It clearly states that some organizations were not allowed to attend --- which is the real story here --- and some were allowed to attend.

Now I wonder, if my aunt had balls, would she be my uncle?

Re: White House Bars NYT, CNN, and Politico from Briefing

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just irrational nastiness Can you point out any significant press coverage of Trump's nastiness that qualifies as "irrational"? If the press reports on Trump's nastiness, does that make the press nasty?

"Can you point out any significant press coverage of Trump's nastiness that qualifies as "irrational"?" Sure but I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader.

> Sure but I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader.

You seem to think you're a professor we're all dying to listen to. Make a point or get the fuck out.

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