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Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

electrek.co

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Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, what you just described is the only "loophole" in existence, and it is supposed to work in any EU country because of some weird nondiscrimination rule. There was even some ECJ ruling on it, if I remember right. For example: I know of a Dutch guy who leases a Ferrari through a Belgian company he set up for this, because it would cost him twice as much in the Netherlands. There are also examples of Be…

The Danish tax authority has this mentioned in their FAQ [1]. They claim that this is true but, 1) "it is a requirement that your vehicle is primarily used for business purposes abroad", and 2) you must "apply to be exempt from registration tax". [1] See the question "Foreign company cars" here: https://www.skat.dk/SKAT.aspx?oId=2068721

Might just be their interpretation of the law though. It could very well be impossible in Denmark, but if some EU law is making it possible, local law can't block it (even though they might want it to). And even if local law is blocking it, it might be in violation of EU law.

Given we're talking a €100-120K tax difference on expensive cars, you can always consult a Danish tax lawyer and if he thinks it's doable do it anyway. If the tax authority has a problem with it then, then you just take it to court. Seems worth investigating.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#172
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a used Nissan Leaf last month. No way I am EVER buying another non-electric car. It's quiet. It's got surprising torque for an economy car. It's got a lot of room for a compact car. I'm 6'5" and gave plenty of head room, legroom, and vertical field of view. Have not been to a gas station in 5 weeks.

Most modern compact cars get 1000 km (or even more) on a single tank, so if you don't drive all that much, you don't need to visit gas stations more often than it's just wise to, to check tyre pressures and clean the gunk of your wind shield (this time of the year is pretty bad when it comes to mud flying on the streets). The difference is, a compact traditional car sells for 15 k€ new, while Leaf goes for 40 k€. Eve…

And check out the resale value on that Leaf. They should have called it the Brick :)

Tesla roadsters, OTOH, are holding their value very well despite being basically a collector's item at this point.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When stepping out of the comfort zone (i.e. no crawling speed or disabling A/C or heating), Leaf's range is less than 100 miles on full charge. It's not very much – in fact, quite the opposite. Unless you share the city you live in with, say, your parents, in most cases you probably couldn't make a trip to meet them without stopping to charge.

I'm not saying that the six-year-old Leaf is the answer to all vehicular needs, I'm saying that for people who need to fly to visit their parents, or have a range-extending hybrid as a second family car, or who just don't drive much beyond their commute, then EVs with sub 100 mile ranges still meet 95% or more of their daily driving needs without needing to recharge and there are many happy owners of such cars alread…

My personal issue with EVs is that most people who like them don't really understand or refuse to acknowledge that their cars also run on fossil fuels, they're just not doing the combustion under the hood.

  The three major fossil fuels—petroleum, natural gas,   and coal—accounted for most of the nation's energy   production in 2015:

  Natural gas—32%
  Petroleum (crude oil and natural gas plant liquids)—28%
  Coal—21%
  Renewable energy—11%
  Nuclear electric power—9%
src: http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/?page=us_energy_home

It might help reduce emissions directly in city centers, but the power plants are generally not that far from large cities anyway. Since EVs are also much heavier in general (Tesla P85D is ~4936lb vs a Corvette at ~3347lb or a Civic at ~2738lb), even though they are pretty efficient, they're still pretty close (when I ran the numbers before, they were higher) in greenhouse gas emissions once you factor in how much energy it takes to drive one vs an ICE vehicle. Batteries are also pretty nasty to dispose of and have a comparatively short lifetime -- a well-maintained car from the 90s is still very much drivable today (and cars without batteries can be maintained almost indefinitely), while battery packs aren't very useful past 7-10 years.

In that same vein, rare earth minerals are required in much larger quantities for EVs due to the batteries and the motors. Many countries mining and processing those don't care much about the environment, so they're mined and processed in environmentally-irresponsible ways, and we're now massively increasing demand for them. This is from 2010: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/forget-lithium-its-rare-earth-mi...

Because they're sold as "green" and "zero emissions", and due to the various government tax breaks (which even applied to >$100k Teslas and >$1m Porsche 918s), single-driver carpool lane privileges in California (significant because about 50% of EVs sold in the US are in CA), priority parking spots, free (employer-subsidized) charging at many workplaces, EVs are ever more popular despite them being about even from what I can tell for the environment when you look at the total lifecycle vs normal cars. This bothers me. Many EV drivers do not seem to understand the impact their vehicles have, seemingly because it says "zer0 emissions" on the license plate frame.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most modern compact cars get 1000 km (or even more) on a single tank, so if you don't drive all that much, you don't need to visit gas stations more often than it's just wise to, to check tyre pressures and clean the gunk of your wind shield (this time of the year is pretty bad when it comes to mud flying on the streets). The difference is, a compact traditional car sells for 15 k€ new, while Leaf goes for 40 k€. Eve…

I don't know why you're getting downvoted - my commute is longer than the range of the Leaf. Not to mention that it's a lot more expensive than the petrol-powered competition,even after taking all tax breaks into account. I get that it's quiet and pretty sporty,but it's just not attractive financially in any way or form,unless you literally don't care about the purchase price.

Or if you get e.g. A nice parking spot at work + free charging from your employer + carpool lane access as a single rider + $7500 IRC 30D tax credit + value the smugness from a "zero emissions" vehicle which relies on fossil-fuel-centric energy production in the US and rare earth minerals from around the world where they care much less about greenhouse gas emissions.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#175
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because electric cars don't actually use 100% of the battery. If the battery is only charged to say 80%, and only discharged to say 30%, instead of doing full charges and discharges, it'll last longer. EV manufacturers know this trick and stop charging at something like 80%, while telling the user it's fully charged. See for instance this article: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/31/battery-lifetime-long-c...

Why can't that be an option on laptops? I'd take that trade off.

The BIOS in modern Dell laptops (e.g. XPS 15), at least, allows you to configure different modes of operation to make the battery last longer. You can choose to charge more slowly but have the lifetime of the cells extended, or charge quickly which will yield less cycles. I'm guessing other manufacturers allow some control over these things as well.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People don't need to be living in massive luxury and you don't always need to spend money to enjoy yourself, but aren't these countries pushing it? I think a lot of it comes down to material vs non material quality of life. First of all, very little of taxes evaporate in e.g wars. That helps. Most of it seems to fund things that make me happy or at least not worried. I'm not worried about getting sick, old, whether…

What you described is a life of a house cat, happy that the food's always there and that there's lots of time to sleep. A bleak life devoid of any ambition and goals. I can't imagine the brainwashing required to make people accept that.

Life in the US must be that of a stray cat, then; running in fear every night, not sure where your next meal is coming from, survival the only thing on your mind, fighting over scraps. That life is reality for many unemployed and under-employed in the US, so that a select few may be very rich and powerful, mostly due to inheritance and favorable conditions / opportunities during childhood.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay for child care, health care and universities, whether through taxes or your pocketbook. Paying through your pocket book just means you have freedom of choice.

Choice of what? I don't really care what brand my antibiotics are. Whether the government pays for it via taxes or me out of pocket, I only care if they work. Same with universities, vacation, labour laws etc...

Consider if one is unable to afford health insurance premiums and has a pre-existing condition which is expensive to treat. This person is not likely to have credit to be able to afford more than a few months of treatment. What choice do they have left other than to die (which is also not typically legal to accelerate)?

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that the six-year-old Leaf is the answer to all vehicular needs, I'm saying that for people who need to fly to visit their parents, or have a range-extending hybrid as a second family car, or who just don't drive much beyond their commute, then EVs with sub 100 mile ranges still meet 95% or more of their daily driving needs without needing to recharge and there are many happy owners of such cars alread…

My personal issue with EVs is that most people who like them don't really understand or refuse to acknowledge that their cars also run on fossil fuels, they're just not doing the combustion under the hood. The three major fossil fuels—petroleum, natural gas, and coal—accounted for most of the nation's energy production in 2015: Natural gas—32% Petroleum (crude oil and natural gas plant liquids)—28% Coal—21% Renewable…

>It might help reduce emissions directly in city centers, but the power plants are generally not that far from large cities anyway. Since EVs are also much heavier in general (Tesla P85D is ~4936lb vs a Corvette at ~3347lb or a Civic at ~2738lb), even though they are pretty efficient, they're still pretty close (when I ran the numbers before, they were higher) in greenhouse gas emissions once you factor in how much energy it takes to drive one vs an ICE vehicle.

Bigger issue with weight is the road wear and tear it causes. The effect isn't even just linear, but much more than that – some studies have calculated that road wear increases to the fourth power in increased vehicle mass[1].

By that account a 5000 lb. Model S causes 16 times the road wear compared to a 2500 lb. compact car. Also, cars do not “eat” the road, they pollute the local air with it (especially the smaller particulates are very nasty stuff indeed in heavily trafficked areas).

[1]: http://archive.gao.gov/f0302/109884.pdf

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find myself chiming in that poor people typically buy used cars. And that you can buy a slightly used Nissan Leaf off craigslist for less than $10,000 USD. Financed over 5 years that's about $150/mo.

Or a civic for $2500 that is even cheaper to maintain. Disclaimer, I bought a civic for $800 and put over 300,000 miles, with an average of 36mpg. Sold it years ago for a used toyota (now with 368k), it is still on the road. Proper maint is cheaper than buying a virtue signalling fashion accessory.

The difference is $10k USD buys you a used Nissan Leaf with 20-30k miles. For a person of limited means that's a good deal since the cost per mile is maybe $0.10/mile vs $0.40/mile.
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