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Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

electrek.co

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Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#141

Post by charlesdm »

gambiting wrote: post #132
nextos wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't drive a foreign car if you are a permanent resident in Denmark, I think. People in my workplace used to try what you suggest, but it doesn't work. If police stops you and they discover you are in fact living in Denmark you will get an enormous fine. Leasing is usually a better deal in this case. You can get a small car for around 1500 kr / month.

What if you work for a foreign company that gave you a company vehicle? I did the same for about 3 years in UK, and it was fine,even the local police and DVLA confirmed that I'm not braking any laws doing it, even though the law is structured in the same way - if you are a permanent resident you can't drive a foreign vehicle in the UK. Except if you work for a foreign company that gave you a company vehicle to use th…

As far as I know, what you just described is the only "loophole" in existence, and it is supposed to work in any EU country because of some weird nondiscrimination rule. There was even some ECJ ruling on it, if I remember right.

For example: I know of a Dutch guy who leases a Ferrari through a Belgian company he set up for this, because it would cost him twice as much in the Netherlands. There are also examples of Belgian people driving cars with Luxembourg plates, etc. This is not illegal (though it's obviously a form of tax avoidance)

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#142

Post by majewsky »

lobster_johnson wrote: post #121
digi_owl wrote: post #3

Expect the numbers to drop right back down again in a few years. A major reason for people owning a EV, a law that was introduced back when Thinks were the big deal EV to have (yeah, right) that allowed EVs to use the bus lanes and not pay a toll, have been repealed. Note that it was only when Tesla made the EV comparable to a sportscar that it picked up in Norway. And that was because now the rich of the nation coul…

Maybe the solution is to reverse the lane regulations so that only EVs are allowed in the main lanes, everyone else go in the side lane. (Still needs a solution for buses.)

This might be the end-game, but you cannot do that right now. 37% of new vehicles might be EVs, but non-EVs are still the overwhelming majority on the road. If you limit those to one road, you just create a permanent nation-wide traffic jam. Just on one lane per road, though. :)

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#143

Post by majewsky »

stuckagain wrote: post #104
valuearb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay for child care, health care and universities, whether through taxes or your pocketbook. Paying through your pocket book just means you have freedom of choice.

In America we have low taxes but not choice. You can choose to drive in America but you cannot choose to ride the high speed rail instead. Our choices are limited by our regime.

I would say that you have "choice", but not "freedom". Choice, in that dichotomy, refers to being able to draw from a set of pre-determined options (e.g. the choice of cereal brands in the supermarket), whereas freedom refers to the ability to follow one's desires, ambitions and morals.

Just the other day, I watched a documentary about the protests that led to the opening of the Inner German border and the demise of the GDR. It was kind of sad to see people protesting for various kinds of freedom, knowing that most of them will only get choice (e.g. the choice of which country they cannot afford to travel to because their jobs were not competitive anymore).

By the way, I don't think that Europe has systematically more freedom (by the above definition) than the US. There are some life plans that you can only carry out in the US, and some that can only be realized in Europe.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#144

Post by _delirium »

charlesdm wrote: post #141
gambiting wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you work for a foreign company that gave you a company vehicle? I did the same for about 3 years in UK, and it was fine,even the local police and DVLA confirmed that I'm not braking any laws doing it, even though the law is structured in the same way - if you are a permanent resident you can't drive a foreign vehicle in the UK. Except if you work for a foreign company that gave you a company vehicle to use th…

As far as I know, what you just described is the only "loophole" in existence, and it is supposed to work in any EU country because of some weird nondiscrimination rule. There was even some ECJ ruling on it, if I remember right. For example: I know of a Dutch guy who leases a Ferrari through a Belgian company he set up for this, because it would cost him twice as much in the Netherlands. There are also examples of Be…

The Danish tax authority has this mentioned in their FAQ [1]. They claim that this is true but, 1) "it is a requirement that your vehicle is primarily used for business purposes abroad", and 2) you must "apply to be exempt from registration tax".

[1] See the question "Foreign company cars" here: https://www.skat.dk/SKAT.aspx?oId=2068721

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#145

Post by Decade »

svantana wrote: post #47
dokein wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's presume that 40% taxes are optimal for Sweden / Norway, and that the U.S. tax rate is 30% [A]. That does not mean that increasing the U.S. tax rate to 40% is optimal for the U.S. - do you think the current U.S. government, Donald Trump, military industrial complex, etc. should get more money to work with? A. These numbers are made up

Yes I totally agree that there can be problems with high taxes (the Laffer curve, corruption, tax avoidance, etc). I was mainly refuting the idea that high tax rates must lead to "poorer" citizens. In many cases the money is just passed around, and if so it's a zero sum game.

It’s not just a zero-sum game. Extra costs include the salaries of civil servants who administer the funds, including the many people whose job is to print out a report and put it in a drawer where nobody will see it, and the blatant cronyism in public contract awards.

Extra benefits include the infrastructure, technologies, and knowledge that we develop, that would not have existed because no businessman would have considered them to be profitable.

The government of the USA is filled with lots of pointless but well-paid jobs, and there is a noticeable small-government-conservative faction that is constantly harassing the government with their counterproductive regulations.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/17/feds-delay-caltrain-el...

https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/the-fallac...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/09/22/california_s_...

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#146

Post by sundvor »

digi_owl wrote: post #3

Expect the numbers to drop right back down again in a few years. A major reason for people owning a EV, a law that was introduced back when Thinks were the big deal EV to have (yeah, right) that allowed EVs to use the bus lanes and not pay a toll, have been repealed. Note that it was only when Tesla made the EV comparable to a sportscar that it picked up in Norway. And that was because now the rich of the nation coul…

As a Norwegian expat: I think this ignores just how big of an impact the VAT (MVA) and other taxation exemptions are. You'll get much, much better cars for your money buying electric - rather than the anaemic, underpowered standard that is the result of the heavy CO2/performance taxation, with an electric car you'll end up with something zippy and fun to drive.

Comparing e.g. Norway and Australia; the standard (petrol powered) engine models in Norway aren't even offered here, no-one would buy them. Sure the cars are loaded with every conceivable luxury option, yet ultimately even your base BMW has less power than the average Toyota Corolla in Australia. (Whilst you might say that this is bad, please don't get me started on the horrible idea Europe had to promote the use of toxic diesel cars over petrol ones; I used to ride a bicycle in Oslo, and it was foul.)

I think the move to make electric cars so affordable is great. Whilst the more prosperous buyers were the first to benefit, there's now a generation of cars moving into the 2nd hand market making the cars more affordable for everyone. Also, with their hydro power, it is truly green energy.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#147

Post by majewsky »

madengr wrote: post #94
zxcvvcxz wrote: post #59

Can someone provide data showing how electric cars reduce emissions overall? Having something like this ready would help when discussing with people who are not sure of the benefits of EVs ("it still uses energy right?").

Charging at night time uses base load, so greater proportion of nuclear power. Maximum efficieny of a gasoline engine is about 30%, versus 96% for an electric motor, though the battery does have less efficiency. Electricity generated at a power plant using fossil fuels and steam turbines is more efficient than locally in an engine. It's cheap to transport electricity over wires. Fuel still needs to be piped and truck…

If one strives to reduce emissions from their EV, it would be better to use a charger at the workplace when plenty of solar energy is available during the day.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#148

Post by johansch »

snom380 wrote: post #111
johansch wrote: post #67

Norway keeps working so hard at building an eco-friendly image. In reality the oil they pump up from their territory makes them one of the world's most environmentally unfriendly countries (both in absolute numbers and particularly per capita).

As a Norwegian, I find it fascinating that Norway has an environmentally friendly image. I wonder how much is the "pristine" fjords, and how much is because of the hydroelectric plants.

Don't forget Thorbjørn Jagland.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#149

Post by johansch »

lobster_johnson wrote: post #139
johansch wrote: post #67

Norway keeps working so hard at building an eco-friendly image. In reality the oil they pump up from their territory makes them one of the world's most environmentally unfriendly countries (both in absolute numbers and particularly per capita).

Annual CO2 emissions per capita, according to World Bank [1], for 2013 (metric tons), top 51: 1 Qatar 40.4 2 Trinidad and Tobago 34.5 3 Curacao 34.1 4 Kuwait 27.2 5 Bahrain 23.6 6 Sint Maarten 20.8 7 Brunei Darussalam 18.9 8 United Arab Emirates 18.7 9 Luxembourg 18.7 10 Saudi Arabia 17.9 11 United States 16.3 12 Australia 16.3 13 Oman 15.6 14 Gibraltar 15.4 15 Kazakhstan 15.4 16 Estonia 15.1 17 New Caledonia 14.6 18…

For some odd reason this does not include their oil extraction.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#150

Post by johansch »

cowardlydragon wrote: post #130
johansch wrote: post #67

Norway keeps working so hard at building an eco-friendly image. In reality the oil they pump up from their territory makes them one of the world's most environmentally unfriendly countries (both in absolute numbers and particularly per capita).

Wherever you are writing this, the problem is you buying the oil, not them selling it.

If they didn't extract the oil it would obviously not be burned.
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