Live data from Hacker News

Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

electrek.co

131–140 of 182 posts

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#131
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Growth may slow down, but why in the world would you expect numbers to drop? Do you consider that internal combustion stuff to somehow have advantages over contemporary technologies?

ICE vehicles are still considerably cheaper compared to EV. Show me a 10,000-15,000 euro electric hatchback that I'd be able to drive for 10+ years without having to purchase expensive batteries every 4-5 years and I'd buy it.

Where are you getting your "some people replace their EV batteries after 4 years" fact?

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#132
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can drive a German-registered car as a tourist who isn't resident in Denmark, but if you move to Denmark and become a resident (or already were resident), you must register the car in Denmark within 30 days of bringing it into the country [1]. But yes, some amount of this happens. The easiest case to get away with it is probably if you are actually from another EU country, and just keep it registered in your home…

You can't drive a foreign car if you are a permanent resident in Denmark, I think. People in my workplace used to try what you suggest, but it doesn't work. If police stops you and they discover you are in fact living in Denmark you will get an enormous fine. Leasing is usually a better deal in this case. You can get a small car for around 1500 kr / month.

What if you work for a foreign company that gave you a company vehicle?

I did the same for about 3 years in UK, and it was fine,even the local police and DVLA confirmed that I'm not braking any laws doing it, even though the law is structured in the same way - if you are a permanent resident you can't drive a foreign vehicle in the UK. Except if you work for a foreign company that gave you a company vehicle to use then yes,you can, and there doesn't seem to be any restriction on it.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This trope of having to replace EV batteries every 5 years is so prevalent, and so wrong, that I'm beginning to be suspicious as to its use.

It happens in laptops. Why should cars be any different?

Because electric cars don't actually use 100% of the battery.

If the battery is only charged to say 80%, and only discharged to say 30%, instead of doing full charges and discharges, it'll last longer. EV manufacturers know this trick and stop charging at something like 80%, while telling the user it's fully charged.

See for instance this article: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/31/battery-lifetime-long-c...

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#134
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a used Nissan Leaf last month. No way I am EVER buying another non-electric car. It's quiet. It's got surprising torque for an economy car. It's got a lot of room for a compact car. I'm 6'5" and gave plenty of head room, legroom, and vertical field of view. Have not been to a gas station in 5 weeks.

Most modern compact cars get 1000 km (or even more) on a single tank, so if you don't drive all that much, you don't need to visit gas stations more often than it's just wise to, to check tyre pressures and clean the gunk of your wind shield (this time of the year is pretty bad when it comes to mud flying on the streets). The difference is, a compact traditional car sells for 15 k€ new, while Leaf goes for 40 k€. Eve…

I don't know why you're getting downvoted - my commute is longer than the range of the Leaf. Not to mention that it's a lot more expensive than the petrol-powered competition,even after taking all tax breaks into account. I get that it's quiet and pretty sporty,but it's just not attractive financially in any way or form,unless you literally don't care about the purchase price.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is repeated around the world. Incentives are designed under the assumption that certain vehicle types need a leg up. Then car companies build cars to that specification, with an associated cost, and sell them to those who can afford. So the hybrid ferrari gets a break, but the non-hybrid but nevertheless more fuel efficient honda civic doesn't. Parking for electric vehicles. Bus lane access for hybrids. hov lane…

Yep, better not do anything. Right? Or... you close loopholes as they appear. Which happens in countries with a functional political system, unlike the US.

Or be tech neutral and instead write standards narrowly focused on a paticular evil. Give a bonus for measured low net emmisions, not a paticular engine tech.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#136
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happens in laptops. Why should cars be any different?

Because electric cars don't actually use 100% of the battery. If the battery is only charged to say 80%, and only discharged to say 30%, instead of doing full charges and discharges, it'll last longer. EV manufacturers know this trick and stop charging at something like 80%, while telling the user it's fully charged. See for instance this article: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/31/battery-lifetime-long-c...

Why can't that be an option on laptops? I'd take that trade off.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this possible? How can anyone afford a car under such conditions? I believe you, I'm not saying you're making it up, but it's inconceivable. So a $20k car is $45k? What the #(%^@! ???

They can't. The point is that you shouldn't have a car unless you absolutely need one(most people don't) and then when you do,you should buy a second hand car, that's far more ecological than production of a new vehicle. I mean, I personally disagree with this approach as I love driving and buy new cars, but I can see and understand why they do it that way. Denmark has extremely well developed public transport and mo…

That was more true when it was introduced, and I think the taxation did succeed in slowing the mass adoption of cars in Denmark compared to in some other countries. But once Denmark got rich enough, much of the population bought cars anyway (now around 50%). It's a luxury, sure, but in a rich country, many people buy luxuries, even when there's a luxury tax. I think the tax mostly delayed the mass proliferation of cars to the 80s/90s, instead of the 60s/70s. And it may have also encouraged cheaper cars than would otherwise have been bought, since buying a $20k pre-tax instead of a $30k pre-tax car saves you $25k, not $10k.

Nowadays car ownership is popular enough that I'm not sure you could successfully introduce such a tax if people were not already used to it existing, and used to current new-car prices. When it was introduced, cars were seen as a rarer luxury than they are now, so a luxury tax was not too unpopular, and many people were also swayed by arguments that they had a significant negative social impact, on things like pollution and traffic and injuries, that should be paid for by taxing them [1]. But since it exists, if you cut it, you have to either raise some other tax, or cut some spending program, to account for the revenue; and you probably also have to build more roads and parking to account for the extra cars. That kind of change isn't so popular, and cars (especially new cars) are still culturally seen as not quite a necessity, so keeping the not-that-loved new-car tax remains less bad politically than the alternatives. Though it being lowered from 180% to 150% is a sign that consensus around it is not as strong as it once was, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more incremental cuts in the future.

[1] E.g. one 2009 analysis found that, even accounting for all the taxes, cars still have a 15% negative impact (costing society $1.15 for each $1.00 paid by car owners): http://www.copenhagenize.com/2012/10/danish-180-tax-on-cars-...

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#138
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't normal luxury cars also crazy expensive in Norway because the state levies additional taxes on them? I read somewhere that a Porsche Cayman, which costs €70k in Belgium, would easily be €175k (converted in its NOK equivalent, of course) in Norway?

Not directly luxury cars, but cars are taxed based on engine volume (and thus fuel consumption) afaik.

Not just engine volume, but also on horsepower, CO2 emissions and total weight.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#139

Norway keeps working so hard at building an eco-friendly image. In reality the oil they pump up from their territory makes them one of the world's most environmentally unfriendly countries (both in absolute numbers and particularly per capita).

Annual CO2 emissions per capita, according to World Bank [1], for 2013 (metric tons), top 51:

     1	Qatar                40.4
     2	Trinidad and Tobago  34.5
     3	Curacao              34.1
     4	Kuwait               27.2
     5	Bahrain              23.6
     6	Sint Maarten         20.8
     7	Brunei Darussalam    18.9
     8	United Arab Emirates 18.7
     9	Luxembourg           18.7
    10	Saudi Arabia         17.9
    11	United States        16.3
    12	Australia            16.3
    13	Oman                 15.6
    14	Gibraltar            15.4
    15	Kazakhstan           15.4
    16	Estonia              15.1
    17	New Caledonia        14.6
    18	Mongolia             14.5
    19	Canada               13.5
    20	Turkmenistan         12.7
    21	Russian Federation   12.4
    22	Faroe Islands        12.3
    23	Korea, Rep.          11.7
    24	Norway               11.7
    25	Palau                10.6
    26	Netherlands          10.1
    27	Greenland            10.0
    28	Japan                 9.7
    29	Czech Republic        9.3
    30	Singapore             9.3
    31	Cayman Islands        9.2
    32	Germany               9.2
    33	South Africa          8.8
    34	Israel                8.8
    35	Aruba                 8.5
    36	Finland               8.5
    37	Belgium               8.3
    38	Bahamas, The          8.2
    39	Libya                 8.1
    40	Malaysia              8.0
    41	Iran, Islamic Rep.    7.9
    42	Poland                7.9
    43	New Zealand           7.6
    44	Ireland               7.6
    45	China                 7.5
    46	Austria               7.3
    47	Seychelles            7.1
    48	United Kingdom        7.1
    49	Slovenia              7.0
    50	Equatorial Guinea     6.7
    51	Denmark               6.7
Total absolute emissions puts Norway at 52.

Carbon intensity [2] for 2011 was the third lowest in Europe among measured countries.

[1] http://databank.worldbank.org/data/reports.aspx?source=2&ser...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_in...

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#140
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because electric cars don't actually use 100% of the battery. If the battery is only charged to say 80%, and only discharged to say 30%, instead of doing full charges and discharges, it'll last longer. EV manufacturers know this trick and stop charging at something like 80%, while telling the user it's fully charged. See for instance this article: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/31/battery-lifetime-long-c...

Why can't that be an option on laptops? I'd take that trade off.

It is on pretty much any quality laptop from this decade. I don't remember the last time I've had to replace a laptop battery.
Post reply on HN