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Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

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Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#741

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

Baeocystin wrote: post #664
SeoxyS wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drink soda water w/ bitters. Looks like a drink, tastes good, and satisfies anyone actually drinking. I drink regularly; but every now and then I'll go a week or month without drinking. I'm currently in the middle of one of these periods; but I've still gone out to happy hour or events that involved drinking every day since it's started. I manage to have just as much fun sober drinking soda + bitters.

Slightly OT, but do you have a recommendation for bitters other than Angostura? I like it, but I'd like to diversify my home cabinet.

Fee Brothers make some decent bitters, I have an Aztec Chocolate one that's really good with soda or in drinks.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#742

Post by morgante »

jbarham wrote: post #346
tptacek wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not square even a little bit with the software employment market I'm familiar with, not only in California but in the Midwest. If you believe that H1-B employees are abused in software development shops, that's all the more reason to organize.

> If you believe that H1-B employees are abused... Of course that would never happen. All American business executives and outsourcing agencies only act with unimpeachable integrity and the highest ethical standards. (Wait, what is the original subject of this thread again...) I repeat, for all American programmers under the age of 35, read https://normsaysno.wordpress.com/ to see how your careers are being systemati…

> Then make alternative career plans for when you're 40+.

Your alternative careers plans can and should be the possibility of retirement.

It is extremely possible as a software engineer to save enough to retire by the time you're 35.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#743

Post by [deleted] »

kennywinker wrote: post #566
weberc2 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if this post teaches us anything, it's that the system works very well, at least for well-performing software engineers. In this case, Susan found a better job with a different company where she presumably won't have to face the same levels of confusion and mistreatment. Unionization seems to come with its own cultural (and procedural) baggage, so I'm wary of invoking needlessly.

Suffers in kafkaesque work environment for a year... gets new job. The system works!

[deleted]

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#744

Post by rspeer »

bpicolo wrote: post #522
DrJaws wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that they "poached" engineers make it look like they are property of a company and can't move looking for better opportunities.

Uber recruiters once emails about 100 engineers in my company the same email...except they managed to swap around the first/last names on all of them.

Most recruiters are comically bad at targeting -- apparently there isn't enough downside to just carpet-bombing as many e-mail addresses as they can find -- but this does not mean that recruiting is inherently wrong.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#745

Post by patmcguire »

bifocald wrote: post #200
logandavis wrote: post #69

By all indications, Uber has a toxic work culture that costs them both top talent and organizational velocity. I'm a college senior at a well-regarded engineering school. My CS classmates - especially women - simply do not apply to Uber, in large part because of its reputation for internal misogyny and general assholery. Four classmates interned there last summer, and as far as I know none are interested in returning…

The real problem in Uber's engineering orgs is that Uber hired too many people for too few real projects. From what I learned from my friends in Uber, many teams had largely overlapping responsibilities, and therefore created bogus projects to justify their existence. Their standard MO is picking a missing feature in a service, and then creating a new system that implemented that feature. It might be okay if all the…

This is true of most big companies. Internally, there are at least three competing versions of what outsiders would consider the same project.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#746

Post by HerraBRE »

fermigier wrote: post #36

What do you expect from a company that has been so many times on the wrong side of the law? http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-fine-chicago-idUSKBN1... http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/14/10772412/uber-fine-califor... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/06/09/uber-fined-... http://time.com/4632430/taiwan-uber-fines/ http://economia.icaew.com/en/news/january-2017/uber-fined-20... http://www.pcworld.com/articl…

The parent comment may seem a bit flippant, but the underlying question is a good one - why do talented, non-toxic people seek employment with companies that are well known to have such terrible culture?

I'm not in the Valley, so all the information I have about Uber's culture is through popular media, but ever since I first heart the company's name it was linked to scandal, poor ethics and/or misogyny.

Talented software developers are a privileged bunch, especially on the West Coast U.S. we are sought after and can pick and choose employers. Why would anyone choose Uber, especially a talented woman?

Do SW devs just not realize how much power and choice they have? Or do people really just choose to work for unethical businesses because they expect a good paycheck? If it's the latter, what does that say about their own personal ethics?

To be clear, I don't honestly believe the majority of Uber's staff are bad people. But that leaves me genuinely baffled as to what they are doing there in the first place.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#747

Post by pnathan »

knucklesandwich wrote: post #133
calcsam wrote: post #15

In case anyone isn't sure why the original interaction is harassment: relationships within a reporting chain are generally prohibited, for both legal, ethical, and practical reasons. Sex becoming part of the effective job description crosses both legal and ethical lines, and team effectiveness is hindered when people wonder whether someone is getting special treatment because they're sleeping with the boss. A manager…

Tech workers (across all disciplines) need to unionize to combat this kind of thing. As has been pointed out below, HR that is staffed and incentivized by the company management only serves the interests of the management. A union is the only structure that can actually win demands for workers by organizing workers to withhold their labor. It's not a panacea, and there are several historical examples of union leaders…

I am utterly persuaded at this point that the software industry workers need a union.

Software engineering hiring practices are profoundly flawed; this is something a union could address at an industry level. It's also deeply problematic for me to take home $fat_paycheck when, say, $sales_guy two tables over is paid minimum wage + commission (disclaimer: I have no knowledge of this occurring at my current company; it happened to a sales guy I know, however). A company of people work together, and should share in the returns as they cover each other's deficiencies.

I'm comfortable asserting that while there are issues with traditional unions, it's possible to improve and make better organizations.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#748

Post by 029r0823jr »

scrollaway wrote: post #639
toothbrush wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for team dynamics, it means we know each other better and bond more frequently. Not a problem, I think. Except for the non-drinkers in your team. I suspect that they either a) feel left out, because a non-drinker at a pub has a boring time, and has to keep justifying their empty glass b) probably miss out on important decisions if a majority of the important people in a team are present, which is bad dynamics c)…

With rare exceptions, I'm a non-drinker. Nowhere in Europe have I ever had an issue ordering a coke instead of an alcoholic drink, even when hanging out with people getting completely shitfaced. Is this seriously a thing in the US? Feeling like you have to drink if you're surrounded by people drinking? I keep hearing stories like that. Nobody is going to judge you for not consuming alcohol - if anyone does, they're c…

It's not that people will judge you IME, but that it's really fucking boring.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#749

Post by hanspeter »

sgustard wrote: post #706
someone13 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, so please don't take this as anything personally directed at you, but: any employee of Uber that feels strongly about this should find another company to work at. If you're working in tech, in the current employment market in the Bay Area, finding another job is not hard. Not easy, both in the sense that leaving a job can be scary, and that interviews can be draining - but doab…

That comes across as a variant of "blaming the victim." Telling an internet stranger to sacrifice himself to some higher cause is not really a noble act. Maybe he can do more good by trying to change the company from the inside. Or maybe he just needs the job and doesn't need to be a hero.

I don't understand this line of thinking. If a company or it's management sucks, then leave. It's not a sacrifice, it's not being a hero. It's in your own best interest. It's also like being a conscious consumer by not buying stuff from shit companies: You can be a conscious employee by not working for shit companies.

I don't see any reason to try to changing a shitty company. It makes more sense to join a great company and help them grow.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#750

Post by [deleted] »

DelaneyM wrote: post #560

I hate stories like this, because there's such an easy solution: hire more women. Nobody should ever have to work with a single-gender reporting tree; in the five or so steps between each individual contributor and the CTO there should be at least one woman. It's not an impossible, or even implausible, goal. Throw a little money at it and widen the funnel, and you'll find plenty of absolutely incredible women. It's e…

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