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Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

susanjfowler.com

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Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#701

Post by Throwadev »

0898 wrote: post #221
csharpminor wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally speaking, I've noticed that Uber has become a dirty word among my friends. For example, someone using Uber will generally just say that they're calling a car rather than naming the service. Lyft doesn't have the same stigma. It should be concerning to management that the company's ethos is repelling customers. Edit: Management should be far more concerned that Uber is allegedly an environment that systema…

I've noticed this. But tempting as it is to #DeleteUber, am I not mostly just hurting local taxi drivers who keep 75% of the revenue?

But if you #DeleteUber won't your money be going to the taxi drivers? I'm not sure I understood your question.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#702

Post by [deleted] »

brudgers wrote: post #91
jacquesm wrote: post #44

What's with all the 'this is unbelievable' comments here? This is absolutely believable, Uber has pretty much made it their standard to break the laws where-ever they can, why should work place conduct be any different? In for a penny, in for a pound. You'd never hear something even close to this from Stripe or some other company run by upstanding folks. Fish rots from the head.

If taking a billion dollars from the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia says something about a company's stance regarding women's equality, what it says is not terribly inconsistent with Fowler's story.

[deleted]

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#703

Post by Throwadev »

orange_county wrote: post #643
rdtsc wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My CS classmates - especially women - simply do not apply to Uber, The sad thing is why do men want to apply there after what is know about it? I wouldn't want to be near any company that treats any of their employees like that.

When you are a new grad, you are more willing to put up with stupid nonsense for a year. Puts great experience on the resume and opens more door than previously before which sets up nicely for your 2nd job out of college. This is true for companies like Amazon.

This is true. Also a lot of grads just think, "I'm not a woman/minority therefore it doesn't affect me if I work there". Others think it sucks but will do it anyway because they want to get a big name on the resume and will take anything they can get.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#704

Post by taneq »

tyingq wrote: post #612
ryanbrunner wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the story got the traction it did means that the response couldn't have possibly been anything other than what it was (disgust and a promise to look into it). Even if the CEO was directly responsible for this culture the response would be the same. I don't think it's possible to extract anything meaningful from it whatsoever at this point.

He did box himself in a bit with "...will be fired". At least boxed into firing somebody. Not at all saying his outrage is genuine, but initial corporate responses don't usually go that far.

I don't know if that really counts as 'boxed in'. The behaviour Susan described as widespread is absolutely unacceptable and in any sane company would be grounds for instant dismissal. If the CEO is acting in good faith then he wouldn't hesitate to act on any cases found - the fact that they have a new head of HR might indicate that a purge has already begun.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#705

Post by taneq »

Throwadev wrote: post #701
0898 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed this. But tempting as it is to #DeleteUber, am I not mostly just hurting local taxi drivers who keep 75% of the revenue?

But if you #DeleteUber won't your money be going to the taxi drivers? I'm not sure I understood your question.

They're using the term 'taxi drivers' to refer to the Uber drivers, not to local licensed taxi operators.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#706

Post by sgustard »

someone13 wrote: post #389
uber_031917 wrote: post #172

Uber employee here. This was a disheartening story to read to say the least. I hope that she sues as her case is abundantly clear and the response by HR and the management chain was absolutely unacceptable. If what happened is true, they should be held accountable. Unfortunately, from my perspective, Uber has a track record of lack of accountability when it comes to leadership/managers. Pretty much everyone I know at…

I mean this in the nicest way possible, so please don't take this as anything personally directed at you, but: any employee of Uber that feels strongly about this should find another company to work at. If you're working in tech, in the current employment market in the Bay Area, finding another job is not hard. Not easy, both in the sense that leaving a job can be scary, and that interviews can be draining - but doab…

That comes across as a variant of "blaming the victim." Telling an internet stranger to sacrifice himself to some higher cause is not really a noble act. Maybe he can do more good by trying to change the company from the inside. Or maybe he just needs the job and doesn't need to be a hero.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#707

Post by knucklesandwich »

tristor wrote: post #696
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of labor practices that most software developers would agree on changing: unpaid overtime, unreasonable on-call requirements, lack of transparency in equity compensation, unreasonably short windows for exercising vested stock options after leaving the company.

Thanks to the Fair Labor Standards Act, anyone who is a software engineer is exempt from overtime pay as long as they make at least $455/week on a salary basis.[1] Hint, I don't know any software engineers making less than $23660/yr. It's a heinously stupid regulation, and it's one which was lobbied for heavily by the tech industry to reduce labor costs. But that is the federal law of the US currently, which means ye…

Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with the person above, but just to clarify: the FLSA doesn't prevent tech workers from collectively bargaining to gain paid overtime as a condition of employment, it just determines the highest wage at which salaried workers are required by law to be paid overtime (which I agree is stupid, and should be a benefit all workers receive).

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#708

Post by logicfiction »

username223 wrote: post #73
calcsam wrote: post #15

In case anyone isn't sure why the original interaction is harassment: relationships within a reporting chain are generally prohibited, for both legal, ethical, and practical reasons. Sex becoming part of the effective job description crosses both legal and ethical lines, and team effectiveness is hindered when people wonder whether someone is getting special treatment because they're sleeping with the boss. A manager…

Not just sex, but sex in an "open relationship," presumably as "backup booty." It's hard for me to understand why she didn't immediately start trying to GTFO, but instead stuck around for a year and tried to make things work. Save transcripts and screenshots, find a new job, then sue at leisure.

> I was enrolled in a Stanford CS graduate program, sponsored by Uber, and Uber only sponsored employees who had high performance scores. Under both of my official performance reviews and scores, I qualified for the program, but after this sneaky new negative score I was no longer eligible.

She had sponsorship in a graduate program at a great school. Eventually this was allegedly ruined in a retroactive performance review change. It seems like it was roughly a few weeks after that when she left.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#709

Post by nthcxd »

brudgers wrote: post #140
jacquesm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting angle that I had not considered. That money is such a weird thing from another viewpoint as well, it means that Uber doesn't have to perform at all for the next decade or so, they can basically wait out all of their competition. It removes every incentive to actually perform which might be just what it takes to kill them.

I hate to use the phrase 'it's only a billion dollars' but at the sort of scale it strives to operate, that's not a massive warchest without follow on investment: e.g. Delta Airlines turns over about $40 billion in revenue a year and a 2.5% subsidy would gobble up a billion. If the actual subsidies are in the double digits that billion starts to look more like a normal 12-24 month funding round [1]. If it dies, it wi…

Well, once they permanently replace the ongoing cost, they will be highly profitable.

https://www.wired.com/2016/10/ubers-self-driving-truck-makes...

This one is not Uber, but you get the idea.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/02/gm-lyft-could-deploy-th...

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#710

Post by tyingq »

taneq wrote: post #704
tyingq wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did box himself in a bit with "...will be fired". At least boxed into firing somebody. Not at all saying his outrage is genuine, but initial corporate responses don't usually go that far.

I don't know if that really counts as 'boxed in'. The behaviour Susan described as widespread is absolutely unacceptable and in any sane company would be grounds for instant dismissal. If the CEO is acting in good faith then he wouldn't hesitate to act on any cases found - the fact that they have a new head of HR might indicate that a purge has already begun.

You appear to be reading something into my comment that I didn't mean, or say. The behavior described is absolutely appalling. All I'm saying is that the CEO's initial statement about it goes farther than usual...these are usually carefully crafted to convey sympathy but avoid liability or commitment to action. Usually words like "appropriate action" and not words like "fired".

I noted it solely because it's unusual.

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