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I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

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Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#171

Post by dingaling »

eridius wrote: post #143
admax88q wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phone's should have a travel mode, where it backs up all your data to the cloud and wipes the phone clean.

Why does that need a special mode? Just back up your phone and factory reset it.

I am reminded of a check-box proforma that circulated in the 1990s, pointing-out the flaws any time someone proposed a 'clever' solution to spam:

'[X] You are proposing a technical solution to a non-technical problem'

The border agent of ${COUNTRY} doesn't care if you wiped your phone accidentally or deliberately; his flowchart says 'access subject's chat history on phone'. If that's not possible, goto 'reject'.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#172

Post by eridius »

digler999 wrote: post #169
eridius wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does that make you livid? Did you think you don't have to obey any laws simply because you're at a border? I guarantee you it's still a felony to murder someone there, so why would lying to a federal agent be any different?

Because the purpose of law is to protect people . The purpose of murder laws is to protect people from the act of murder. The purpose of constitutional law is to protect people from tyranny.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. My point is that you can't reasonably claim that all laws go out the window just because some constitutional protections are suspended. Saying that it should be legal to lie to a federal agent under those circumstances is roughly equivalent to saying it should be legal to murder said federal agent under those circumstances (which is obviously not true).

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#173

Post by eridius »

dingaling wrote: post #171
eridius wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does that need a special mode? Just back up your phone and factory reset it.

I am reminded of a check-box proforma that circulated in the 1990s, pointing-out the flaws any time someone proposed a 'clever' solution to spam: '[X] You are proposing a technical solution to a non-technical problem' The border agent of ${COUNTRY} doesn't care if you wiped your phone accidentally or deliberately; his flowchart says 'access subject's chat history on phone'. If that's not possible, goto 'reject'.

The border agent of ${COUNTRY} cannot reasonably deny you access because you aren't in possession of a smartphone with personal data on it. What they can do is get you in trouble for deliberately wiping said personal data after they ask for it, but it's perfectly legal to choose to travel without carrying your personal data.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#174

Post by jazoom »

khedoros1 wrote: post #166
jazoom wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you're thinking about USA, which is a country I have no desire to visit.

If you aren't planning on going to the US or to whichever other countries might try something similar, then I suppose it's a moot point for you, and you don't need to worry about your phone at all. But if your home government started treating you unreasonably, you might also be interested in having a discussion about possible reactions to the new policies, right?

Maybe, but I don't know when I might need it in the future, and when the time comes it's already too late. That is why I'm interested in this topic now. That is also why I'm not dismissing the idea because of some possible charges that might be laid against me by some possible border control person some time in the future.

I have nothing to hide personally. I'm more concerned about business secrets and SSH keys.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#175

Post by eridius »

idbehold wrote: post #154
eridius wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need to know you have evidence. All they need to know is that you deliberately caused them to erase your device under the guise of unlocking it. Which means your device could have had evidence, and now you've made it impossible to prove that it didn't.

The burden of proof is still on them, no?

IANAL, but I don't think so. They don't have to prove that the data you just wiped contained evidence of wrongdoing, they just have to prove that you wiped the data after they asked for it. That's kind of the point of "destruction of evidence". If they already knew the contents of the data, they wouldn't actually need it, now would they?

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#176

Post by digler999 »

eridius wrote: post #172
digler999 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the purpose of law is to protect people . The purpose of murder laws is to protect people from the act of murder. The purpose of constitutional law is to protect people from tyranny.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. My point is that you can't reasonably claim that all laws go out the window just because some constitutional protections are suspended. Saying that it should be legal to lie to a federal agent under those circumstances is roughly equivalent to saying it should be legal to murder said federal agent under those circumstances (which is obviously not true).

you: "murder == lying"

me: "no it's not"

I don't claim "all laws go out the window". No clue how you reached that conclusion.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#178

Post by eridius »

digler999 wrote: post #176
eridius wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. My point is that you can't reasonably claim that all laws go out the window just because some constitutional protections are suspended. Saying that it should be legal to lie to a federal agent under those circumstances is roughly equivalent to saying it should be legal to murder said federal agent under those circumstances (which is obviously not true).

you: "murder == lying" me: "no it's not" I don't claim "all laws go out the window". No clue how you reached that conclusion.

The only other conclusion is that you think that the law against making false statements is somehow special and it alone should be thrown out under those circumstances. But there's no reason why that particular law should be special, so the much more straightforward assumption is that you think laws in general shouldn't apply in those circumstances.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#179

Post by hrehhf »

abeyer wrote: post #126
hrehhf wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used the Android development tools to make backups over USB and it is fast. You can install just the command-line tools from https://developer.android.com/studio/index.html#downloads and use: adb backup -apk -shared -all -f backupname.ab adb restore backupname.ab

Though be aware that this won't backup everything. (at least on a non-rooted device) Notably, if you use google authenticator for 2FA, it won't backup and you'll restore a device that will no longer work as your second factor.

Thanks, that is good to know. I wish there was something as easy as the iTunes backup for iPhones. There are Android apps that claim to do a more thorough job but I haven't tried them.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#180

Post by type0 »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #132
gyger wrote: post #21

I suggest mentioning in the title that it concerns the US-border, I travelled across a lot of international borders, that didn't care. Only some international borders are a problem, one of these, the US one.

I know of companies that do not allow employees to bring work devices into China. That's probably a somewhat different issue of industrial espionage, though.

Then I'm sure US is doing fine in that regard, because american agencies are morally superior to be involved in such a thing, cogh, cogh...
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