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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#391

Post by thewhitetulip »

cmdrfred wrote: post #237
thewhitetulip wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in India and the govt doesn't back any student loan yet college tuitions have ridiculously skyrocketed, heck, I paied less for my one yr college tuition than qhat my cousin is paying for his daughter's playgroup (I paid 50k INR for 1yr tuition and my neice's playgeoup charges 75k INR, don't know what the fuck they teach)

That's less than $800 US isn't it? To compare a year of school here probably averages 10K USD a year or 668,325 INR.

No, it is around $ 1250

I am talking about playgroup!! And 75k is the least costly PLAYGROUP, playgroup is before starting nursery :P

Oh my God, 10k $ per year! That is way too costly, Indian colleges have reached 1/3 or your school's fees, my counterparts at private institutions were paying 1/3 and I have heard that people now in college are paying as far as 1/2 of what you have mentioned, so it is catching up.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#392

Post by mavelikara »

winter_blue wrote: post #326
dominotw wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but you lose your line in Perm queue, not to mention the H1B recertification process which is fraught with peril.

Are you sure about your I-140 priority date resetting if you change jobs? I've heard mixed opinions on this. Also, the policies on this might have changed due to the various new immigration regulations that came into effect on January 17, 2017: https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-publishes-fin...

The place in line stays intact, especially after the new rules came into play.

Nevertheless, the process has to restarted - from PERM onwards - at the new job. PERM is a process which carries much uncertainty - your application could get selected for additional scrutiny randomly, in which case it can take more than a year. During this period the priority date can become current and then retrogress again for many years. Both these have happened multiple times in the past, so those possibilities are not academic.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#393

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #362
freyr wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing the average salary of all H-1B jobs (developer, accountant, analyst, etc.) to the salary of a developer. Instead, look at the average salaries for H-1B software engineers in 2016: Facebook @ Menlo Park: $152k Google @ Mountain View: $130k Apple @ Cupertino: $154k Amazon @ Seattle: $124k Microsoft @ Redmond: $120 So comparing base salary alone, these companies are definitely not underpaying their H-1B…

I don't think anyone is complaining about companies like Facebook and Google, who, by many accounts in this thread, are paying market rate for H-1B holders. These guys are not abusing the system. People are complaining about those outsourcing consultant companies who are abusing the system by paying far below market rate to H1B holders.

[deleted]

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#394

Post by freyr »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #267
freyr wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing the average salary of all H-1B jobs (developer, accountant, analyst, etc.) to the salary of a developer. Instead, look at the average salaries for H-1B software engineers in 2016: Facebook @ Menlo Park: $152k Google @ Mountain View: $130k Apple @ Cupertino: $154k Amazon @ Seattle: $124k Microsoft @ Redmond: $120 So comparing base salary alone, these companies are definitely not underpaying their H-1B…

So by "these companies" you mean Facebook, Google, etc, because they are paying the going rate by paying $152k. That just confirms the OPs first point, that TCS, Wipro and Infosys, with their 30,000 Visas avg. ~$70k, are massively abusing the system. Its about time these companies were prosecuted for lying to the government: Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2…

> "That just confirms the OPs first point, that TCS, Wipro and Infosys, with their 30,000 Visas avg. ~$70k, are massively abusing the system."

No, that was the article's point. OP's contribution was that everybody is underpaying, which isn't true.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#395

Post by jon_richards »

aviraldg wrote: post #45
kls wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the incentive system. I have never been known for my lack of directness and in given so, I used to work with an Indian developer who was very good at his job. So one day I just flat out asked him, I said Karthick why do a good portion of Indian developers suck, his response floored me. Without missing a beat he responded, look it's a misaligned incentive system. When I go back to India the first questi…

As a current CS student from India, I can completely back this theory. Most in my class are very sure they want to pursue a career in Computer Science, but have little to say if you ask them why. A good fraction of them, every year, end up joining consultancy firms in nontechnical roles, or (what I hate more) in HR - and are perfectly fine with it. Computers in India are not associated with the amazing feeling most o…

Another thing to note is that Indian schools have quotas for majors, so what major you end up in depends on how well you test. You end up picking the hardest major to get into that you qualified for, which happens to be computer science.

I see tons of recent computer science grads who want to do "anything that doesn't have to do with computers."

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#396

Post by ma2rten »

geebee wrote: post #361
dlp211 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, this is how H1Bs are abused. But companies like Amafaceooglesoft are hiring H1Bs directly and pay wages, bonuses, and benefits that are equal to their US counterparts, thus, using the system as intended. They are also far more likely to sponsor their H1Bs for Green Card status. I personally work on a team at one of Amafaceooglesoft. On that team are 7 people where 2 are former H1Bs and are now Green Card hol…

I guess the question I'd ask is, do amafaceooglesoft contract out IT work to companies that use the H1B visa, and were any of these roles previously handled in-house. I'm not sure of the answer, but it could be that these companies make use of both paths. If you're hired directly by these companies, you are paid the same, but a job that is eliminated and replaced through one of the body shops wouldn't be. For instanc…

That does not happen at Google.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#397

Post by prostoalex »

ep103 wrote: post #365
trhway wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lets say a person sent to work on a 3-4 month project in CA, another such project in WA, and another such in NY while officially living with the other 30 like him in a little house on the prairie. What government can do here? Specifically how it can be clearly identified as illegal? It is like with various other technical loopholes (like say taxes of many rich people, like that one American President who was able to…

I am not a lawyer. But I'd be willing to guess that the difference is that you're a US citizen, attempting to get work wherever you can find it. While you're in that state, you abide by the laws of that state (you pay taxes to that state for income earned there, for example), while also following the laws of your home state (you also file tax there). And while I imagine accenture's argument will be similar to yours,…

You are winning an argument against strawman. Accenture will not claim "occasionally our clients are interested in having our developers work on site".

Their business is outsourcing and their clients always want their consultants 100% on-site. If on-site presence is not required, why acquire an H1-B and cover travel expenses instead of just sending the project details directly to India (as I'm sure Accenture does for projects that do not require direct on-site involvement).

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#398

Post by prostoalex »

dlp211 wrote: post #360
emidln wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entire South would face a skills shortage. Maybe the "entire South" should increase their rates if they want to compete on talent. I have no sympathy for a company that can't find talent because "we don't pay SV rates because we're not in SV".

That's not the real issue. The real issue is that tech workers are not the only one's coming here on H1B, and those professions don't pay nearly what an SDE gets paid.

Considering tech companies are the ones filing H1 petitions by the truckload, sounds like non-tech professionals are screwed either way.

How's lottery status quo a better deal?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#399

Post by prostoalex »

harichinnan wrote: post #186
bjornsing wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So isn't the obvious solution to move the allocation strategy from lottery to "auction" (highest payed employees get their visas first)?

That would essentially mean only silicon valley and NYC employers would get H1B employees. The entire South would face a skills shortage. The economist article actually provides a better solution. Visas shouldn't be tied to a particular employer. The employee should be able to transition to a new employer without a new visa application. There could be minimal paperwork to determine when a foreign worker is and whethe…

> The entire South would face a skills shortage.

Any loophole created for this scenario would be immediately exploited by outsourcing companies headquartering themselves in the South, sponsoring H1's and then immediately arbitraging a freshly arrived employee to a Silicon Valley or NYC client.

> The employee should be able to transition to a new employer without a new visa application.

That is such a great idea that it's always been part of the H1 visa. New employer just needs to initiate an H1 transfer.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#400

Post by gaius »

pinaceae wrote: post #240
gaius wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a decent salary, lots of people. Do the 9-5 and spend the rest of the time on hobbies or with family. And why not?

simply not true. become a hiring manager and you'll see. you don't even get applications for those jobs by American CS grads or professionals - before any salary numbers are in play. we run analysis in our HR pipeline trackers - remove Asians and Eastern Europeans and its crickets. walk into Google, Facebook, Salesforce offices and see for yourself. i know this is super unpopular on HN were everyone is a superstar co…

you don't even get applications for those jobs by American CS grads or professionals

I just had a 26 year-old US coder

I think you may be looking at this through a very narrow perspective of SF 20-something startup culture. But look at any other branch of engineering - civil, electrical, mechanical etc - and the backbone of those fields is 30- 40 and 50- somethings who work normal office hours.

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