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Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

militarytimes.com

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Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#301

Post by tim333 »

wallace_f wrote: post #82
3131s wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our "defense" of Vietnam. And most people only think of Vietnam itself regarding that conflict, yet Cambodia and Laos were absolutely decimated too. The US dropped more tons of bombs on Laos and Cambodia individually than the combined amount dropped by the allied forces in WWII. There are still 80 million unexploded bombs in the Laos countryside. Landmines sold by the US and China to the Lon Nol government and the…

That's awful. I thought I knew of a lot of the "unreported war crimes" we've done, but I did not know of this.

I knew it had happened but didn't know the scale. Apparently Laos was 'the biggest bombing in history', but they kept it secret at the time. 580,344 bombing missions. Guess that's what you get for being a non violent Buddhist country. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37286520

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#302

Post by dragonwriter »

wtbob wrote: post #206
shawabawa3 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military also didn't go out of its way to punish recklessly shooting down a civilian aircraft. The guy should have been court martialed, but at the very least not given a medal

> The military also didn't go out of its way to punish recklessly shooting down a civilian aircraft. It wasn't reckless: it was the right call based on the data Vincennes had, which showed that an Iranian fighter was able to kill it.

> it was the right call based on the data Vincennes had,

It was, at the most generous, the right call based on the misinterpretation of that data by the crew.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#303

Post by elastic_church »

dang wrote: post #296
elastic_church wrote: post #223

They are taking your money to murder people. I'M KIDDING! Murder implies that there's any law to enforce whatsoever! I meant kill with premeditation!

You've been posting plenty of comments to HN that are either uncivil or unsubstantive or both. Please (re-)read the site guidelines and stop doing that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

It was supposed to be thought provoking due to the widespread dismissive nature of the lack of accountability in the US government.

I saw which unrelated comments got flagged but using this one to notify me seems like a lack of discretion since this one is substantive.

The article is literally about that and doesn't say it

There's a trope in several topics where saying murder when you really mean "premeditated killing" can derail a conversation simply because no law currently supports the action in question as an illegal killing.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#304

Post by pqs »

ionised wrote: post #118
pqs wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, there is objective evil. ISIS is objective evil, for example. Russia or the USA are in the gray zone, where some of they actions are evil, some others are simply stupid, and some other have sense. So, I understand your point, everything is complex, but we should avoid losing our moral compass. Some evil is really evil. Edited: typos.

Define objective evil

I guess that all most religions and philosophies would agree in that causing unnecessary pain is bad, that to kill for pleasure is bad, etc. It is difficult to explain in words where the common denominator is, but this doesn't mean there isn't one.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#305

Post by Mikeb85 »

seppin wrote: post #275
Mikeb85 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's not making a humble, leftish point about our moral failures in foreign policy! Morality doesn't exist along the left-right spectrum. Also, this is simply your perception. > But unlike Russia, we are not at a point where our leaders simply "disappear" domestic political opponents and journalists. No, they magically commit suicide, get killed in a car crash, or get murdered in a botched robbery.

> No, they magically commit suicide, get killed in a car crash, or get murdered in a botched robbery. In the west, name one.

Google is your friend. Many US politicians (a surprising number really) have been killed. Of course, most have 'explanations' that are officially accidents. The government isn't going to admit to political assassinations, so for you to ask for 'proof' is an impossible task. Then again, there's 'explanations' for most deaths in Russia too. The real question is whether you believe that the US government only tells the truth and only the Russian one lies.

Of course, we know the US government lies about a lot, that's how we know about CIA actions to overthrow governments, the Iran-Contra affair, etc... We know the US government engages in assassinations abroad, whether it's a covert action or via drone.

To think that none of the politicians who are killed in plane crashes, gym accidents, car accidents or have heart attacks were expedited along is naïve.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#306

Post by seppin »

RodericDay wrote: post #280
seppin wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans barely even really reckon with slavery. Compare to Germans with Nazism. Where's the slavery Auschwitz? There are minor museums here and there but it's completely incomparable. This is a completely subjective statement. The US has slavery museums in its Washington DC, and it's a topic that is never far from public conscientiousness. Compare that to Brazil, who's slave trade dwarfed that of North American,…

The US has "slavery museums". You don't even name them. It's utterly incomparable to Auschwitz. Then you go on to compare the USA to China, Russia, and Brazil. High standards. Lastly, there's a lot to be said for 1984-style repression like in those three, and Brave New World-style repression like in America. Even comedians have nice bits about how a lot of Americans can't even really place slavery well in a timeline,…

> Then you go on to compare the USA to China, Russia, and Brazil. High standards.

I am comparing one country to another, one that does better than the rest. You know, how any comparison is made in any discipline. You can't just hold up an imaginary standard that no country fulfills to make your point that X country could be better.

Some people live in the real world.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#307

Post by seppin »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #305
seppin wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, they magically commit suicide, get killed in a car crash, or get murdered in a botched robbery. In the west, name one.

Google is your friend. Many US politicians (a surprising number really) have been killed. Of course, most have 'explanations' that are officially accidents. The government isn't going to admit to political assassinations, so for you to ask for 'proof' is an impossible task. Then again, there's 'explanations' for most deaths in Russia too. The real question is whether you believe that the US government only tells the…

> so for you to ask for 'proof' is an impossible task

lol you are a excellent troll. "My unverifiable claims are just as true as yours are." No, there is a Russian opposition leader in a coma right now and you can't point to a single western journalist or politician suffering the same fate.

> We know the US government engages in assassinations abroad, whether it's a covert action or via drone.

Whataboutism, changing the subject, etc. I hope you are entertaining yourself b/c there is no other value to this thread.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#308

Post by Mikeb85 »

seppin wrote: post #307
Mikeb85 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is your friend. Many US politicians (a surprising number really) have been killed. Of course, most have 'explanations' that are officially accidents. The government isn't going to admit to political assassinations, so for you to ask for 'proof' is an impossible task. Then again, there's 'explanations' for most deaths in Russia too. The real question is whether you believe that the US government only tells the…

> so for you to ask for 'proof' is an impossible task lol you are a excellent troll. "My unverifiable claims are just as true as yours are." No, there is a Russian opposition leader in a coma right now and you can't point to a single western journalist or politician suffering the same fate. > We know the US government engages in assassinations abroad, whether it's a covert action or via drone. Whataboutism, changing…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_American_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Congress...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/10/prominent-politicians-k...

> No, there is a Russian opposition leader in a coma right now

Which one? I mean, they call Navalny an opposition 'leader' even though he's never led a political party or held office, so odds are it's some random protester or blogger.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#309

Post by effie »

Panoramix wrote: post #153
avar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a thought experiment you can use to clarify the difference between good & evil: What would each side in a conflict do if they had overwhelming power? We have plenty of evidence to see what the US would do. When they defeated Germany & Japan at the end of WWII did they enslave their people? Use their nuclear advantage to conquer new lands and colonize them? No, they rebuilt their economies and tried to ensure t…

Japan is a particularly bad example: Truman and congress wanted to destroy Japan, make an example out of it. Destroy all of their industry and infrastructure. Except general MacArthur, the de facto ruler of the area openly disobeyed (quite unprecedented). He decided to rebuild Japan, because it was painfully obvious that they could use an ally. If it was up to the US government, they would be all but rubble.

That's interesting. How come one general overruled the president and congress?

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#310

Post by tropo »

RodericDay wrote: post #225
csallen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point isn't that the US is to blame for all the bad that happens in the world. There are plenty of places that are worse than we are. However, we act as if that absolves us of all wrongdoing, which is plainly absurd. I would like to counter that notion. In addition, we simply don't acknowledge what we've done. Our media won't report on it. I would like to see an end to this mass propaganda and willful ignorance. F…

> In addition, we simply don't acknowledge what we've done. This is spot on, and the biggest difference between America and other countries which commit atrocities. America is allowed to forget. And it's not a trivial or minor difference at all. Americans barely even really reckon with slavery. Compare to Germans with Nazism. Where's the slavery Auschwitz? There are minor museums here and there but it's completely in…

Normal history classes in the USA are nearly 100% about atrocities, from the large and obvious down to the trivial and questionable. Hardly anything positive is ever said about the USA. One might even get the impression, as you seem to have, that the USA is an especially evil country.

The reality is that every nation, every ethnicity, and every culture has been build upon a hill of skulls. As these things go, the USA has been less vicious than most.

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