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Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

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Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

#601

Post by Rusky »

ioquatix wrote: post #397
Rusky wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing subjective about it. Take a look at the APIs, they operate at the same level and are designed around the same principles. As for past driver quality, ask a graphics developer doing anything more complicated than a toy weekend project. OpenGL drivers are inconsistent and buggy.

> Just because it was designed to be high-performance doesn't mean it automatically wins on platform support and implementation quality. I never asserted that. I didn't even qualify what I meant by "BEST". But, let's evaluate the qualities you mention: > platform support Vulkan objectively wins here, supporting Windows 7/8/10, Linux, macOS/iOS with a wrapper, Android, etc. Intel has unofficial drivers for their x86 i…

By "platform support," I was not referring to the number of platforms supported by the API, but the quality of support for the API provided by the platform(s). Vulkan objectively loses to D3D and Metal here.

We absolutely know the implementation quality of D3D- you don't have to see the source to see its performance, its stability, or its adherence to the spec. On the whole, it's far more consistent and stable than OpenGL and there is no reason to believe Vulkan will change any of that as it uses the same process for specification, development, and deployment.

Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

#602

Post by microcolonel »

vbezhenar wrote: post #538
microcolonel wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Microsoft hasn't committed to supporting Vulkan first-party, every major Windows(and macOS) graphics vendor has a compliant Windows Vulkan driver which performs well, most vendors have two or three independent implementations. There are real applications being built today under the assumption that these drivers will continue to work. Also, given that Windows versions other than ten still make up more than half…

> Also, given that Windows versions other than ten still make up more than half of the PC market, Direct3D 12 is not even an option for most PCs, but Vulkan is. What hardware Nvidia and AMD will support with Vulkan? It might turn out, that they will support relatively new hardware and Windows 7 usually used with older hardware, so it might be unavailable even for Windows 7. And if those users will upgrade to Windows…

They support mostly the same hardware with Vulkan, and they already ship Vulkan drivers by default through Windows Update. If they're on Windows 7, they'll have working Vulkan. If they move to Windows 10, they'll still have it.

NVIDIA provides Vulkan back to Fermi (April 2010). AMD provides Vulkan on all GCN models (January 2012). They provide this support on all supported versions of Windows. For Fermi cards, I believe NVIDIA may have shipped Vulkan drivers all the way back to Windows XP (though I think they stopped doing XP releases in June last year).

Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

#603

Post by sova »

kazagistar wrote: post #363
sova wrote: post #42

Go for it! I would love to see more focus on browser-based what-the-future-of-code-may-look-like. That said, I don't think that 3D interfaces are the only kinds that need good language / representation. Not that the rules should be really rigid, but I think that if we pursue the notion of reversely symmetric UI-languages we can make a lot of progress. Imagine that you have a 3D scene, what is the minimal language you…

Is this some kind of procedurally generated programming related nonsense?

After reading it over a couple times I realize it may read that way. Just a (terse) synopsis of some of my thoughts on the state and future of UI "programming"

Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

#604

Post by MikusR »

douche wrote: post #490
alwillis wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latest results of the so-called dead platform--"iPhone, Services, Mac and Apple Watch Set All-Time Records" http://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/01/apple-reports-record-f...

I think the parent claim is that Windows Mobile is a dead plarform, which, it pretty much is, after the nokia fiasco.

Yes. Meant Windows mobile.

Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

#605

Post by pjmlp »

vetinari wrote: post #591
pjmlp wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually 2D and text rendering, WPF rendering, UWP Composition API, UI animation support. All of them used by most desktop applications on Windows, including image, video and 3D editing applications.

Not explicitly. It is used by platform libraries that these application use. Given that they are provided by the platform vendor - the same that pushes DX - it's no wonder, that it was being pushed there. CAD, GIS, or other applications that need to use 3D explicitly, on the other hand.... Basically only Autodesk ventured there, with 3ds Max and AutoCAD (since 2015).

Well, Autodesk products are market leaders, probably Catia is the only alternative.

Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

#606

Post by MBCook »

robert_foss wrote: post #553
MBCook wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the fact they helped usher in the modern web with WebKit and they're the ones in charge of this very popular thing called iOS?

WebKit came from the Linux Open Source landscape. It was created withing KDE. Re: iOS being popular; You're in a bubble, the iOS market share as of 2016Q3 is 12.5%.

WebKit did start with KHTML as a base, but it was Apple (and later Google) who brought it to prominence. When it was only KHTML it was a bit player.

As for market share, that's percent of devices sold. By web browsing it's about 25%, and that doesn't include the possibly outsized influence it has due to being so much more common at the top of the market.

Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

#607

Post by MBCook »

shmerl wrote: post #593
MBCook wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a gamer, then you're quite used to this going back all the way to the old Sega vs Nintendo days. It may be annoying but it's something we by and large accept.

Common usage of crooked practices doesn't mean anyone likes them. Let alone encourage any of such trash.

I didn't say people liked it, I said they were used to it. It's the status-quo so it doesn't get questioned the way it would if it was a completely new concept.

Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

#608

Post by [deleted] »

grzm wrote: post #589
RussianCow wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be pedantic, but the male form is actually also the neutral form in English; "their" is not actually correct. That said, I think it's entirely appropriate to use it in practice.

Singular they is used and appropriate in English as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

[deleted]

Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

#609

Post by jolux »

foldr wrote: post #480
saurik wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a non sequitur: it is the same argument applied to another situation where people fall into the same trap of lack of knowledge leading to a lack of understanding of their own plight (we might even call it a "blissful ignorance"). The other person who responded to the same parent comment saying "it's hard to be consciously bothered by the lack of something that you've never experienced?" could have been leav…

OT, but I'm an uncircumcised gay guy who has had a fair amount of experience with both types of penis. I suspect that anyone who's all beat up about being circumcised (except a small minority of people who have had botched circumcisions) is projecting some other problem with their sex life onto that. Both types of penis work perfectly fine.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Circumcision

>However, in a meta-study spanning 40,473 males, the studies rated most accurate found that "circumcision had no overall adverse effect on penile sensitivity, sexual arousal, sexual sensation, erectile function, premature ejaculation, ejaculatory latency, orgasm difficulties, sexual satisfaction, pleasure, or pain during penetration."

Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API

#610

Post by blurbleblurble »

hutzlibu wrote: post #572
blurbleblurble wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as i can remember, they've been consistently behind on support for emerging web technologies (since the app store came out), it just doesn't seen to be in their business interests to keep up.

But it is something different, to not "keep up" with full priority, than to intentionally sabotage WebStandards ...

Sabotage is a strong word, but it doesn't have to be intentionally malevolent. In psychology the word sabotage is often used to describe situations where people don't have faith in relationships (maybe because of personal hangups) and go at them half heartedly. When their relationships fizzle out, people said to "sabotage relationships" are often left feeling confused about what happened.

Apple has consistently shown that their locked down platform is priority number one. I think there are people who, for better or worse, have grown wary of that and need some extra convincing if Apple wants to influence big decisions.

Safari feels more and more like IE to me as the years go by. I just have a hard time taking it seriously and don't go out of my way to support it, just like Apple doesn't go out of it's way to support it when they have proprietary platforms that they can make vastly more money from.

All that said, yes, Apple has pushed the envelope from time to time, and has made some major contributions to open standards, so credit where credit is due, and accountability where accountability is due.

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