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Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

militarytimes.com

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Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#261

Post by dionidium »

csallen wrote: post #32
educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

One should be capable of criticizing U.S. atrocities while maintaining perfect moral clarity regarding, for example, anyone whose religion compels them to murder cartoonists.

The world isn't black and white, indeed.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#262

Post by ikeyany »

qntty wrote: post #218
gizmo wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that Chomsky has to have a very bland delivery, because the same message delivered with a more impassioned style would make him seem unhinged by the casual observer.

I remember him saying that his delivery style was very deliberately chosen by him, although he didn't say why.

Because he convinces with his points, not by trying to pander to emotions.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#263

Post by exodust »

tremendo wrote: post #242
shard972 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And he wasn't wrong when he said in that recent super bowl interview "we aren't so innocent". Everyone is still jumping on him like he was saying the US is just the same as Russia, unable to accept the nuance that America has a lot of crimes to answer for.

When O'Reilly mentioned Putin, the person, being a killer, Trump answered that the U.S. (not a person) isn't so innocent either, which yes true, also clearly deflecting and avoiding saying or acknowledging anything bad about Putin. What immediately came to my mind was O'Reilly could have followed up with "is the President of the U.S. a killer?". I thought missed opportunity, but of course, that could have never aired…

Missed opportunity for what? Click-bait word games?

This is exactly the problem we have with popular news media, they want these "hard-hitting" soundbites for their promos and clickbait.

The point was clear enough for everyone to understand. Leaders of countries take military action, and people die as a result on both sides. Russia has killed, America has killed. Whats funny is that O'Reilly said "I don't know of any leaders who are killers".

O'Reilly represents the sleeping American who believes USA is good, everyone else evil. Trump woke him up!

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#264

Post by csallen »

refurb wrote: post #248
csallen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

You're making the same mistake as the people you're chastizing. You're filtering this historical events through your own filter to create a good guy and bad guy. It's more complicated then that. I encourage you to dive into the details of Mossadegh's overthrow. Did the US and British encourage the coup? Sure. Was there significant opposition to his rule among Iranians? Definitely. I argue he would have been disposed…

I have, actually. Mossadegh was extremely popular, and actually had to be reinstated due to public outcry after his temporary removal. Did he eventually do some crazy things? Yes. But would that have happened without major foreign powers spending tons of money funding agitators and rebellion? Doubtful.

Regardless, my initial point wasn't that the Iranian government under Mossadegh were the "good guys". It's that average American's aren't aware of the kinds of operations our country runs and why we carry them out.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#265

Post by opo »

0xfeba wrote: post #239
avar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a thought experiment you can use to clarify the difference between good & evil: What would each side in a conflict do if they had overwhelming power? We have plenty of evidence to see what the US would do. When they defeated Germany & Japan at the end of WWII did they enslave their people? Use their nuclear advantage to conquer new lands and colonize them? No, they rebuilt their economies and tried to ensure t…

> No, they [the US] rebuilt their economies and tried to ensure that they had stable governments & trading partners. Except we completely stiffed Russia, who without which we wouldn't have won WWII, at least not so easily. And then since things were peaceful we decided to make the USSR the enemy for then next 40 years, via the threat of "communism" spreading. And that led to Vietnam, Korea, etc., and all the military…

>...Except we completely stiffed Russia,

“stiffed” would imply we didn’t pay a debt we had previously agreed upon. Obviously that is not the case. As to why the Soviet Union or eastern Europe was not part of the Marshall Plan:

>...Although offered participation, the Soviet Union refused Plan benefits, and also blocked benefits to Eastern Bloc countries, such as East Germany and Poland. The United States provided similar aid programs in Asia, but they were not called "Marshall Plan".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#266

Post by seppin »

saiya-jin wrote: post #168
lazaroclapp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the only country in which Chomsky is seen as uninteresting or nitpicking is in the U.S. That's not to say there are no complexities to whether or not a Pax Americana is better than the alternative (based on previous U.S. govts.), or that all governments records are equivalent when it comes to propaganda or human rights (for their own citizens). But no other country sees the U.S. unequivocally as "th…

> But no other country sees the U.S. unequivocally as "the good guys". well you would have to be a complete ignorant to last 60 years of history and present to consider US the good guys. Economically strong police state with more innocent blood on their hands for last 20 years than any other state in this world. Axis of evil my ass

putting aside the simplistic rhetoric, who are the "good guys" then ?

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#267

Post by seppin »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #62
fsloth wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what aspect of Chomsky makes him uninteresting. Maybe it's that his message - trying to point out the human flaws of his governmemt - goes so much against the grain of hollywood aided propaganda that people presume it's either minute details or just wrong?

What made it difficult for me to sustain focus while listening to him was his near-monotone delivery. But now I almost appreciate it.

i'm not there yet

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#268

Post by [deleted] »

qntty wrote: post #218
gizmo wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that Chomsky has to have a very bland delivery, because the same message delivered with a more impassioned style would make him seem unhinged by the casual observer.

I remember him saying that his delivery style was very deliberately chosen by him, although he didn't say why.

[deleted]

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#269

Post by kwhitefoot »

wtbob wrote: post #206
shawabawa3 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military also didn't go out of its way to punish recklessly shooting down a civilian aircraft. The guy should have been court martialed, but at the very least not given a medal

> The military also didn't go out of its way to punish recklessly shooting down a civilian aircraft. It wasn't reckless: it was the right call based on the data Vincennes had, which showed that an Iranian fighter was able to kill it.

Only because no one went out with binoculars to take a look.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#270

Post by kwhitefoot »

wtbob wrote: post #205
linuxkerneldev wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the USS Vincennes incident took place Summary for those who like me didn't know about the incident. Our guy shot down a passenger flight, murdering 290 human beings, we gave him a medal but we then paid USD$213,000 in blood money per passenger to Iran without ever admitting fault. " Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai. On 3 July 1988, the aircraft operating on this route was sh…

> Our guy shot down a passenger flight, murdering 290 human beings, we gave him a medal but we then paid USD$213,000 in blood money per passenger to Iran without ever admitting fault. Vincennes believed it was shooting down an attacking Iranian fighter, not a passenger jet. It wasn't murder; it was an accident (due to faulty electronic data). We didn't give the skipper a medal for shooting down the plane; we gave him…

The aircraft was surely within visual range. If someone had gone out to look with a telescope perhaps the disaster could have been avoided.
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