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Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

militarytimes.com

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Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#171

Post by rangibaby »

striking wrote: post #23
nharada wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just like solving interesting problems, I don't care about politics. And besides, if I don't do it someone else will anyway"

See, that quote felt like it applied to me... until we started talking about choosing whether someone lives or dies. The thought becomes really scary when taken to its logical conclusion. After mulling it over a bit, I don't think I could work as a defense contractor.

"I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example a lawnmower." - Mikhail Kalashnikov

"If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker." - Albert Einstein

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#172

Post by rangibaby »

deepnotderp wrote: post #29
dcposch wrote: post #11

i'm disappointed that hardly any members of the media or Democratic party establishment talk about Obama's expansion of the drone program. we have a long list of names. the executive branch of our government curates the list unilaterally and in secret. then, we cross names off the list by killing them. sometimes, they're American citizens. often, they're in countries we're at peace or even allied with. there are chil…

>i hope the technologists who created this infrastructure think about that when they try to sleep. Yes, because people flying planes instead of drones is so much better, right? (/s) The problem isn't in the technology people, it's in who's using it. Obama and Trump's expansions of these programs is what the problem is.

Actually it is. There are no expensive planes to operate, no crashing or pilots dying, which means there is no political risk to carrying these missions out. Just lots of brown people getting blown up, and we've seen how much people care about them.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#173

Post by saiya-jin »

avar wrote: post #113
wz1000 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I would prefer a US hegemony over an ISIS hegemony. The comparison itself is ridiculous. But saying that the US has not used its military strength for its own benefit and at the expense of the people of other countries is ridiculous. The US staged a coup in Guatemala at the behest of the United Fruit Company, when the democratically elected Prime Minister of Guatemala wanted to end UFCs exploitative labor practi…

> Yes, I would prefer a US hegemony over an ISIS hegemony. The comparison itself is ridiculous. Of course the comparison is ridiculous. That's my whole point. But this is the comparison the grandparent I'm replying to is making. I.e. that the U.S. bombs some countries while being concerned about civilian casualties, and terrorists respond with something like the 9/11 attacks where they're explicitly trying to inflict…

needless to say, you are wrong in your statements. US has no regard for life apart from US citizens (and this is a topic on its own), practice demonstrated again and again in various aspects of life, war, international affairs etc.

lesser evil ain't no good in any book out there. we can and should strive for better

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#174

Post by shard972 »

jackvalentine wrote: post #8

President Trump wasn't wrong when he said terror attacks are under reported but sadly the underreported ones are committed by the United States and her allies. What exactly is the "big picture" I'm missing here that is achieved by levelling Yemen one mud brick building at a time?

And he wasn't wrong when he said in that recent super bowl interview "we aren't so innocent". Everyone is still jumping on him like he was saying the US is just the same as Russia, unable to accept the nuance that America has a lot of crimes to answer for.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#175

Post by anon2264 »

dcposch wrote: post #152
Ntrails wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a clip on the news recently of a reporter badgering Trump about his intent to create closer ties to Putin. "He's a murderer, he's killing innocent civillians", the reporter states as though this is particularly important. The President responded with something along the lines of "And we're so much better?". I'll freely acknowledge his flaws but by Gods it felt good to see someone acknowledge the tricks of persp…

He's not making a humble, leftish point about our moral failures in foreign policy! He was shrugging off the use of murder as a political tool. America may be in a bad place right now, and we've done a lot of awful things in other people's countries. But unlike Russia, we are not at a point where our leaders simply "disappear" domestic political opponents and journalists. Things can get a lot worse. Trump was express…

Surely things can get worse, but if the dead could speak, Gary Webb and Michael Hastings would want to have a word with you.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#176

Post by stefantalpalaru »

avar wrote: post #71
educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

Here's a thought experiment you can use to clarify the difference between good & evil: What would each side in a conflict do if they had overwhelming power? We have plenty of evidence to see what the US would do. When they defeated Germany & Japan at the end of WWII did they enslave their people? Use their nuclear advantage to conquer new lands and colonize them? No, they rebuilt their economies and tried to ensure t…

> When they defeated Germany & Japan at the end of WWII did they enslave their people? Use their nuclear advantage to conquer new lands and colonize them? No, they rebuilt their economies and tried to ensure that they had stable governments & trading partners.

The US influence and control over "liberated" Europe was much more discrete, but still as efficient: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

They still did their usual military coup routine in Greece - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E... - and were really close to do the same in Italy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golpe_Borghese

This degree of discrete but ruthless control is in place to this day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#177

Post by shard972 »

dcposch wrote: post #6
ryanmarsh wrote: post #2

There's only one way to find out the truth: FOIA the mission logs

hah. you, sir, are either an optimist or a satirist. FOIA responses are routinely denied or heavily redacted even for much more mundane requests than asking for details of unacknowledged drone kills.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the Trump administration was actually better at processing FOIA requests?

To be honest it will be difficult for them not to be, can't imagine he will be getting any less than Obama.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#178

Post by saiya-jin »

js8 wrote: post #135
maxvu wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Altruism isn't "helping others", it's "helping others for others' sake". Other motivations muddy the selflessness.

But isn't that the case here? US didn't expect anything in return other than side effects of Europe being stronger (which was an advantage for them as well).

to enforce future battlefield so war could potentially be fought only far, far away and enemy would weaken itself, and US would benefit in similar fashion as from WWII... I am sure there were many aspects considered for Marshall plan, some could probably be called altruistic, but many could be called selfish.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#179

Post by shawabawa3 »

enkid wrote: post #164
Trundle wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't know they gave that guy a medal. That's straight up sadistic.

He got a medal for completing his tour. He didn't get a medal for shooting down the plane. It's normal to get a medal whenever you move in the military. Not saying he deserved one, but the military wasn't going out if it's way to reward the shoot down if a civilian airliner.

The military also didn't go out of its way to punish recklessly shooting down a civilian aircraft.

The guy should have been court martialed, but at the very least not given a medal

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#180

Post by aedron »

dcposch wrote: post #152
Ntrails wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a clip on the news recently of a reporter badgering Trump about his intent to create closer ties to Putin. "He's a murderer, he's killing innocent civillians", the reporter states as though this is particularly important. The President responded with something along the lines of "And we're so much better?". I'll freely acknowledge his flaws but by Gods it felt good to see someone acknowledge the tricks of persp…

He's not making a humble, leftish point about our moral failures in foreign policy! He was shrugging off the use of murder as a political tool. America may be in a bad place right now, and we've done a lot of awful things in other people's countries. But unlike Russia, we are not at a point where our leaders simply "disappear" domestic political opponents and journalists. Things can get a lot worse. Trump was express…

> we are not at a point where our leaders simply "disappear" domestic political opponents and journalists

Nice how you snuck "domestic" in there, as if that makes it so much better.

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