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Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

nytimes.com

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Re: Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

#101

Post by vahakota »

IsaacSchlueter wrote: post #80
jdietrich wrote: post #46

I'd like to make a thoughtful comment, but I'm struggling to get past the phrase 'age-appropriate'. As someone who has never been 'appropriate' to their chronological age in any respect, it always comes across as reductive, patronising and ultimately dehumanising. It seems to me to be the product of a worldview which sees children not as distinctive individuals with unique preferences and aptitudes, but as mere larva…

I think she's lauded as wise because this story gives the reader an easy bromide disguised as deep understanding. She never once in this story actually sat with her partner and tried to understand what was going on with him. She gave him an answer, made a few demands, and flat out refused to listen. Reading this story broke my heart. I couldn't believe her utter weakness and lack of compassion. The truth is scary. Lo…

-- The first step to Happiness is admitting one's neuroses.

The second is admitting that the first didn't make them go away. --

This is rightfully to the point. But my experience has led me to believe that it doesn't end here. With time and practice we can learn to gradually replace our "neuroses" with different kinds of thinking patterns.

Although it is true that there is no binary switch, there are ways to start training new neural pathways which gradually alter the patterns that we end up following in given circumstances.

To make it short, I'd just add these to your list:

The third step is to decide whether you want to commit to the process of changing yourself on some particular area even though you are bound to face setbacks on the journey.

Re: Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

#102

Post by yesbabyyes »

arethuza wrote: post #85
jdietrich wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At two I was a committed vegetarian, at four a committed socialist, at six a committed atheist. I could calculate the kinetic energy of a bicycle in motion before I could ride one. At four years old, I most certainly did feel de-humanised when refused a vegetarian meal or spitefully tricked into eating meat. I'm obviously a distant outlier, but the standard deviation is much greater than most people imagine. At the o…

I must admit that, like sdh, I am very curious as to whether you have your own kids.

Though I disagree with jdietrich's analysis of the rest of the article, I agree with the thing about age-appropriateness. I also think he showed pretty clearly that he remembers his own childhood, and uses that to validate his feelings about "age-appropriateness", rather than parenthood.

I am not a parent, and I had a good enough childhood (though I think I could have been given better schooling), but I have a four year old niece and she definitely is a person with her own worldview and her own feelings. I can have a conversation with her as I can with somebody else, regardless of age.

If you take people seriously, no matter what they look like, I promise you that you will have a richer life.

Re: Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

#103

Post by iskander »

>The dreams you set out to achieve in your 20s — gazing into each other’s eyes in candlelit city bistros when you were single and skinny — have for the most part come true.

It sounds like her dreams were achieved. His dreams we never hear about.

Re: Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

#104

Post by sshumaker »

Confusion wrote: post #90
IsaacSchlueter wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think she's lauded as wise because this story gives the reader an easy bromide disguised as deep understanding. She never once in this story actually sat with her partner and tried to understand what was going on with him. She gave him an answer, made a few demands, and flat out refused to listen. Reading this story broke my heart. I couldn't believe her utter weakness and lack of compassion. The truth is scary. Lo…

She never once in this story actually sat with her partner and tried to understand what was going on with him Of course she has tried that and of course he couldn't explain what was wrong. It is crystal clear that the man wasn't clear on what he thought should be changed. As jjames points out in another comment, his life involves much more than just her. This woman recognized that, accepted that and gave the man room…

Clearly this story wasn't the whole story. If you read the followup article, you learn that his business recently failed, and he had lost his sense of self-worth - all of which the wife was aware.

Re: Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

#105

Post by metachris »

ghshephard wrote: post #39
grellas wrote: post #19

I like to call it a "midlife adjustment" and there is not a person alive who gets to that age who does not have to deal with it at some level - it really is the transitioning from the phase of life where everything points up to that in-between phase where things slow down, age starts to show itself more, and our mortality looms nearer. We all react to it differently but react we do, unless we are beyond feeling. This…

I think it's a bit of a stretch to state "not a person alive who gets to that age..." - The whole mid-life crisis thing is a function of societies that are a little higher up in Mazlo's hierarchy. I assure you that the significant part of humanity that is trying to track down enough food, clean water, or even a warm place to sleep each night - let alone adequate medical care or education, doesn't suffer from ennui. T…

> I assure you that the significant part of humanity that is trying to track down enough food, clean water, or even a warm place to sleep each night - let alone adequate medical care or education, doesn't suffer from ennui. They, of course, suffer from hunger, thirst, and exposure - problems, yes, but they certainly have clear priorities.

Maybe they don't suffer from ennui, but why do you come to the conclusion that they do not get a mid-life crisis? Surely they notice the decline of physical strength too. I certainly think that also people not provided with anything necessary may ask themselves at some point "isn't there more?".

Re: Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

#106

Post by joezydeco »

abstractbill wrote: post #45
georgieporgie wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's ever a time when my wife distills my desires to building a "man cave" or "trekking" that's when I know I married the wrong woman.

Ok sure, "man cave" is a dumb phrase, but how do you know the husband hadn't regularly talked about trekking in Nepal or converting the garage?

"Man Cave" is married-folk slang for "some personal space where I don't mess with your stuff."

Have a gaming rig on a table that your wife can't go near? That's a man cave. How about a car project in the garage? Fishing boat out back? Electronics bench full of parts and tools?

Re: Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

#107

Post by sdh »

jdietrich wrote: post #71
sdh wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'd like to make a thoughtful comment, but I'm struggling to get past the phrase 'age-appropriate'. As someone who has never been 'appropriate' to their chronological age in any respect, it always comes across as reductive, patronising and ultimately dehumanising. It seems to me to be the product of a worldview which sees children not as distinctive individuals with unique preferences and aptitudes, but as mere larv…

At two I was a committed vegetarian, at four a committed socialist, at six a committed atheist. I could calculate the kinetic energy of a bicycle in motion before I could ride one. At four years old, I most certainly did feel de-humanised when refused a vegetarian meal or spitefully tricked into eating meat. I'm obviously a distant outlier, but the standard deviation is much greater than most people imagine. At the o…

So, do you have kids?

If not, it doesn't invalidate your observations, but it definitely puts you at a disadvantage. You just have no idea what you don't know until you spend 24/7 raising a child.

I have two kids. They both learn differently and at different rates. As a result, we teach them differently. However, we are still teaching them what is appropriate to their specific stage of development (I call that age appropriate, but you may not).

So, I totally agree that learning should be unique to the individual, but I also think there are very real and distinct stages of growth that each individual goes through and for learning to be most effective it needs to take that into account.

Re: Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

#108

Post by IsaacSchlueter »

sshumaker wrote: post #104
Confusion wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She never once in this story actually sat with her partner and tried to understand what was going on with him Of course she has tried that and of course he couldn't explain what was wrong. It is crystal clear that the man wasn't clear on what he thought should be changed. As jjames points out in another comment, his life involves much more than just her. This woman recognized that, accepted that and gave the man room…

Clearly this story wasn't the whole story. If you read the followup article, you learn that his business recently failed, and he had lost his sense of self-worth - all of which the wife was aware.

So why wasn't she helping him to process this pain and mourn his losses rather than simply ignoring his pleas for help?

"Giving someone space" is not the same as just telling them you don't believe them and turning away from them.

I remain convinced that she's a narcissistic person who doesn't know what love is, and this story is heartbreaking for all the wrong reasons.

Re: Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

#109

Post by IsaacSchlueter »

vahakota wrote: post #101
IsaacSchlueter wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think she's lauded as wise because this story gives the reader an easy bromide disguised as deep understanding. She never once in this story actually sat with her partner and tried to understand what was going on with him. She gave him an answer, made a few demands, and flat out refused to listen. Reading this story broke my heart. I couldn't believe her utter weakness and lack of compassion. The truth is scary. Lo…

-- The first step to Happiness is admitting one's neuroses. The second is admitting that the first didn't make them go away. -- This is rightfully to the point. But my experience has led me to believe that it doesn't end here. With time and practice we can learn to gradually replace our "neuroses" with different kinds of thinking patterns. Although it is true that there is no binary switch, there are ways to start tr…

In other words: The third step is realizing that you have no idea how many steps there are.

Re: Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear

#110

Post by IsaacSchlueter »

Confusion wrote: post #90
IsaacSchlueter wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think she's lauded as wise because this story gives the reader an easy bromide disguised as deep understanding. She never once in this story actually sat with her partner and tried to understand what was going on with him. She gave him an answer, made a few demands, and flat out refused to listen. Reading this story broke my heart. I couldn't believe her utter weakness and lack of compassion. The truth is scary. Lo…

She never once in this story actually sat with her partner and tried to understand what was going on with him Of course she has tried that and of course he couldn't explain what was wrong. It is crystal clear that the man wasn't clear on what he thought should be changed. As jjames points out in another comment, his life involves much more than just her. This woman recognized that, accepted that and gave the man room…

    Of course she has tried that and
    of course he couldn't explain what was wrong.
Ah, the laziest excuse for bad behavior ever. "I tried that, and it didn't work!"

He couldn't explain what was wrong, but he was trying to explain how he felt. These things are complicated. And rather than try to help him explore this problem, she refused to listen, because his feelings didn't jive with her worldview.

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