Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker • Hacker News Board

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#171

Post by celerrimus » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 12:01 PM UTC

d3ckard wrote: post #164

celerrimus wrote: post #163

This is very puzzling for me. You know, volkswagen as volkswagen, they will do anything to increase profit, but how it's possible that people buy those? Because it's not that thet they produced more cars, someone buy it. I can't understand how company having such long miserable history of cheating it's own customers (one sample, manufacturing defected TFSI engines they refuse to repair under warranty), and society as…

>> They are were maybe little delayed in terms of design and equipment, even slightly old-fashioned. You answered yourself.

>>> You answered yourself.

True. But tought that more customers will choose more reliable cars, especially if future of VW after emission scandal was not so certain.

Last year they updated most models, new RAV4, Avensis, Corolla are much more suited to current trends. Looks like new C-HR will be popular in it's segment, so interesting how stats will look this year.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#172

Post by d3ckard » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 12:27 PM UTC

celerrimus wrote: post #171

d3ckard wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> They are were maybe little delayed in terms of design and equipment, even slightly old-fashioned. You answered yourself.

>>> You answered yourself. True. But tought that more customers will choose more reliable cars, especially if future of VW after emission scandal was not so certain. Last year they updated most models, new RAV4, Avensis, Corolla are much more suited to current trends. Looks like new C-HR will be popular in it's segment, so interesting how stats will look this year.

Asian cars, Japanese in particular, are generally less advanced. They do not use turbocharged gas engines, have less bells and whistles inside and have worse design for many European tastes. That's just it.

Of course, there are exceptions - Mazda is considered to look pretty cool across whole model range. Still, for my use, I much prefer my 1.4 TSI than whatever I saw available in Asian cars.

Volkswagen cheating was unacceptable and I'm pretty happy they got their asses handed to them over the issue. At the same time I'm aware that American diesel regulations are a way to protect your own brands, since Americans don't have the tech to make their own - you're more gas/hybrid/electric market.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#173

Post by PunchTornado » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 12:45 PM UTC

ransom1538 wrote: post #5

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

don't forget the biggest cheater of them all: apple

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#174

Post by torrent-of-ions » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 12:45 PM UTC

gonzo41 wrote: post #14

ransom1538 wrote: post #5

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

What about all the people that work for VW, though? You can't hold all of those people accountable for what happened. It would be better to punish the individuals who encouraged it and those who knew but turned a blind a eye.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#175

Post by PunchTornado » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 12:46 PM UTC

frik wrote: post #117

ransom1538 wrote: post #5

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

If you own a VW/Seat/Skoda/Audi diesel car in US, you can give your car back and get your money. In EU, VW promises to fix the car by adding a 5cent placebo plastic pipe and a software update which lowers the performance and increases the diesel consumption (physics after all). In US VW has to pay billions, in EU VW has to pay nothing to speak of. Of course the German government is involved in this company as shareho…

the laws are not the same in EU and USA. especially the laws regarding emissions

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#176

Post by emptyfile » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 12:53 PM UTC

celerrimus wrote: post #163

This is very puzzling for me. You know, volkswagen as volkswagen, they will do anything to increase profit, but how it's possible that people buy those? Because it's not that thet they produced more cars, someone buy it. I can't understand how company having such long miserable history of cheating it's own customers (one sample, manufacturing defected TFSI engines they refuse to repair under warranty), and society as…

IMHO

They aren't as overpriced in Europe, parts are cheaper which offsets the relatively lousy reliability (compared to Japanese cars), also the second-hand car market and the second hand parts market are huge here.

Basically Japanese cars ARE considered more reliable, but precisely for that reason they're seen as more premium than VW, which itself is the most expensive of "ordinary" brands.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#177

Post by patrickk » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 12:57 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #64

wyager wrote: post #59

I'm well over 200,000 miles on my '98 Land Cruiser and looking for a replacement, but frankly, Toyota's current offerings aren't looking too hot... The 200 series land cruiser is trending towards a suburb-mobile and is basically unsuited for offroad use, whereas the 70-, 80- and 100-series are awesome for offroading, even in stock off-the-lot configuration. The 4Runner is a decent offroad vehicle, but doesn't have th…

I am disappointed in Toyota's current offerings. Take a look at what is on the lot today and what was on the lot in 1997. 20 years ago you could pick up a world-class Supra or a proper Land Cruiser or a Tacoma or a Camry or Corolla that could practically be the last commuter car you ever need. All of them stubbornly reliable. many of the cars Toyota had on the lot in 1997 still sell for close to their retail price! T…

> 20 years ago you could pick up a world-class Supra or a proper Land Cruiser or a Tacoma or a Camry or Corolla that could practically be the last commuter car you ever need. All of them stubbornly reliable. many of the cars Toyota had on the lot in 1997 still sell for close to their retail price!

The mid-90s to early 2000s were a golden era for Japanese cars. I dream of importing a Nissan Silvia S15[1] with the legendary SR20 engine. It's quite feasible, especially if you live in a left hand drive country (warning: it's complicated getting some of these cars into the US[2]). The Skylines of that era (e.g. the blue and silver one from the Fast and the Furious 2) still sell for insane money (around €35k-45k last time I checked, depending on the model and trim), they are really hot items to import from Japan. Also, the Hilux of the era is virtually indestructible. Top Gear famously demolished a building with a Hilux perched on top[3], and the engine still worked afterwards.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-bcPNJzwtA

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1627s5/iama_guy_who_i...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#178

Post by tremon » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 12:59 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #102

kartan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a listed company you would be taking away many peoples jobs and savings who are innocent parties in this. 1. Nationalize part of the company hurting investors. 2. Auction the shares to the market 3. Profit$ This way a "too big to fail" company can continue running its business as usual while punishing the value of the company. That doesn't means that personal responsibilities are forgiven, any one that breaks th…

That is fundamentally not different from a fine, which is ultimately also paid completely by the investors.

Yes, it is completely different, because the nationalization step strips the original investors from all power.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#179

Post by hvidgaard » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 12:59 PM UTC

claudius wrote: post #169

hvidgaard wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is several layers of leadership. The CEO might say, we need to make a product in this price range, and meeting the new regulations. Several layers below him, are the managers, that goes into the nitty gritty details of the engine and know what the engineers are doing. Is the CEO reponsible if the manager cheated and deliberately hid facts from the upper management, just to please them and make himself look bett…

> Is the CEO reponsible if the manager cheated and deliberately hid facts from the upper management, just to please them and make himself look better? Morally, certainly yes, that’s why they’re the CEO. Their only defence against responsibility is incapacity to fulfil their duties, in which case they should resign immediately.

It is naive to believe a CEO can know about everything. The job is to get out of the habit of running the company day to day, and focus on vision, strategy, and culture. It is entirely possible for the management levels below him to ignore orders, and cheat measures out in place to ensure this. As long as the CEO act accordingly when knowledge about this reaches him, he is doing a proper job. It will never be possible to totally control things with an orginazation so large that you need several layers of management. You do put trust into the lower layers, no matter how you do it.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#180

Post by saiya-jin » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 1:10 PM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #160

simonbarker87 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not read Arnold's autobiography but out of interest what are you referring to? If you are talking about his use of steroids etc (which I'm assuming is covered in the book?) then that isn't really cheating since in the case of professional bodybuilding since the sport is untested. There are federations that test and in that case using PEDs is cheating but in an untested federation, it's considered fair game. Obvi…

I'm not referring to that, because at that time it was even legal. For example what he did was looked at what parties the jury members went, and then go there and socialize with them. So they already knew him personally before going on stage. Or mess mentally with competitors, lie to them etc. Or when he was on stage with another bodybuilder for the final poses, acted as if he was about to leave the stage, the other…

Some of it, albeit in lighter sense is covered in document Pumping Iron. Great watch, I have more respect and disgust for him at the same time after seeing this.

But yeah, if you want to win at all costs, you start cutting corners, moral and others. Otherwise somebody else with even less moral approach will and will roll over you. Most giants got to the top by being like that (Gates, Jobs, Trump, pick anybody). There are no nice guys in top business, politics or any other power games.