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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#101

Post by mikeash »

soneca wrote: post #6
_xhok wrote: post #2

I agree with his stance on this, and I think Trump and his latest executive orders are awful, but I also think that at this point, "hatred," "bigotry," and "racism" should be excised from public discourse. These are labels. No one really knows what "hate" means anymore, but because people are emotional, they see the word, recall what they think of Trump, and think, "yeah, that's hateful!" This is a problem for two re…

"People become sick of this, and vote Trump just to fuck with everyone." This is extremely superficial, arrogant, even offensive to people who voted for Trump. And that is the reason why Trump won IMO. Opposition couldnt understand (not even recognize) the legitimate and valid thoughtful reasons people had to vote for Trump.

I'm sure it's a small minority, but I encountered people who said they thought Trump was a bad choice but were voting for him just to upset liberals.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#102

Post by _xhok »

mikeash wrote: post #96
_xhok wrote: post #2

I agree with his stance on this, and I think Trump and his latest executive orders are awful, but I also think that at this point, "hatred," "bigotry," and "racism" should be excised from public discourse. These are labels. No one really knows what "hate" means anymore, but because people are emotional, they see the word, recall what they think of Trump, and think, "yeah, that's hateful!" This is a problem for two re…

While we're banning these other words, can we also ban "virtue signaling"? It basically means "you are being insincere" and is just as unproductive.

I like it because it includes the implication that you're doing it to ingratiate yourself with people who are already your allies, and passing it off as bravery. That's more specific than insincere.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#103

Post by Inconel »

selllikesybok wrote: post #78
yummyfajitas wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I'm told I'm racist because I think blacks and whites are interchangeable, and because I don't care about one over the other. I'm told I'm racist for thinking the opposite. I'm told it's racist to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm also told it's racist NOT to do so. The closest principle I can find that predicts who is considered a racist is "republican = racist". Can you provide a clear definition of racism…

I'd start here - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism #1 leads to #3 leads to #2. But there is a lot more to it. Not a simple concept. There is a lot of reading to do if you'd like to understand more. Can provide some links.

Isn't it increasing argued that the dictionary definition of racism is only one possible definition? I've heard it stated many times that the newer excepted definition involves the traditional aspect of racism coupled with the component of power. That is to say that racism is prejudice plus power.

As an example, a minority in the US may be prejudiced or bigoted, but they cannot be racist since they lack the societal power that whites enjoy. Thus only whites can be racist.

Just to be clear, I'm not endorsing one definition over the other, I only meant to illustrate​ that even seemingly well defined words can have different meanings.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#104

Post by puranjay »

kalleboo wrote: post #95
puranjay wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my ignorance - I'm not American and haven't followed this news - but how is everyone conflating it with "muslims"? I mean, my country has some 140M muslims (India), and my neighbors have some 330M muslims. As a layman, I just read the order and I thought "oh, so it's all war torn countries...but what's Iran doing in there?" not "oh, it's all muslim countries"

Because Trump went to election on "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" [0, donaldjtrump.com] The fact that it was implemented as a ban on citizens from the most prominent Muslim-majority countries (as seen by the eyes of the average American voter, who forgot about Saudi Arabia) could be interpreted as a way for Trump to say he kept his pledge while not being instantly impeached for n…

So basically, it's just posturing? Or would the order be removed eventually?

Re: Make America Hate Again

#105

Post by btown »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #50
metafunctor wrote: post #3

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

No. I'm told I'm racist because I think blacks and whites are interchangeable, and because I don't care about one over the other. I'm told I'm racist for thinking the opposite. I'm told it's racist to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm also told it's racist NOT to do so. The closest principle I can find that predicts who is considered a racist is "republican = racist". Can you provide a clear definition of racism…

I don't have time at the moment to give this the response it deserves, but this is quite an eye-opening comment. There are many who believe that globalism is discriminatory as well. I truly think there's an answer that is in line with the "gut feelings" of those of us who are abhorred by Trump's order and not by trends towards globalism, but as you note, it's difficult to articulate.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#106

Post by mikeash »

jasonlingx wrote: post #37

Trump campaigned on this. America voted for this. Every nation gets the government it deserves.

How does it make sense to speak about an entire nation deserving anything? I didn't vote for this, but I'm getting it just the same.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#107

Post by 3pt14159 »

kalleboo wrote: post #81
hueving wrote: post #31

I flagged this, not because I have issues with the political stance, but because it adds absolutely nothing of substance to discuss. It's just a re-iteration that this administration is "hateful", "racist", "bigoted" and whatever else without anything compelling to convince anyone to change or even strengthen their views. I see nothing useful that can come from wasting discussions on this. I'm already regretting spen…

Same here. This is one of those topics where the Hacker News community has no particular insight, and the comments will surely be the same political cesspool as anywhere else (prove me wrong, please!).

It's because everyone is entitled to their opinion and they haven't necessarily done the work necessary to come to a nuanced understanding of the world.

Take a random visitor to HN and ask him or her what they think of the changes in Golang's garbage collector. Most wouldn't know what those changes have been, when they happened, or the outcome of those changes. Even the few that had a beginning of an understanding like me, would know that there are probably important details that are missing from understanding it so we keep our thoughts to ourselves. Then you'll get the like dozen or so guys that really understand it talk about it and the other 99.8% of us get to read and learn. What you think about the person in the Oval Office isn't something that you need academic or professional rigor to have a viewpoint on. It's part celebrity and mixed up with political ideology so people aren't usually shown that they don't actually understand what is going on. Plus, HN is popular in USA, Russia, Israel, Germany, Canada, Japan - each with their own viewpoints and lack of shared cultural understanding.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#110

Post by mikeash »

Corristowolf wrote: post #56

Obama was the one who implemented the visa ban for 7 islamic countries. Trump is just continuing the policy and added a LGBTQ clause. The left is blowing this out of proportion, just because it's Trump. They had no problem with airstrikes everyday that Obama was in office. I wish the press could be more objective. Every country has a right to deny access to people from other countries. Same with all the islamic middl…

I have seen this statement several times now. Obama did the same thing, and nobody complained.

It's not the same thing at all. Obama didn't block people who already have valid visas. Obama didn't block green card holders.

Why do you say it's the same? Do you consider those two things to be essentially the same, or are you ignorant of the actual substance of one or both of these actions, or what?

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