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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#91

Post by throwaway8727 »

anon1385 wrote: post #62
hueving wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't see how that is not clear Because you're not even using the right word? Discriminating by country is not racist, it's xenophobic. Otherwise everyone who says American tourists are annoying or has a stereotype about Americans is racist by your definition.

Trump’s chief spokesman Sean Spicer just explicitly stated that it's not about countries[1]: >certain areas of the world produce people who seek to do us harm. What's your definition of race? It's a hard thing to define since it doesn't objectively exist, but I think 'people from certain areas of the world' is pretty indistinguishable from what most people mean by race. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/20…

Regions are not not necessarily race either. It could easily be about culture and the associated value systems. For example during WW2 - even before the US joined it - america did reject refugees from europe because they might have been nazis. Nazis were just as caucasian as most americans, but they had a culture that was clearly seen not just as incompatible but as hostile.

To the "alt-right", fundamentalist christians, nationalists or simply less-informed conservatives someone from the middle east may appear to have a similarly fundamentally incompatible value-system as a nazi would have to an american in the 1930s or a commie during the cold war.

Race and Nationality are a proxy for religion and culture which is a proxy for value systems. And value systems are what people disagree with and vote against.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#92

Post by [deleted] »

selllikesybok wrote: post #82
hueving wrote: post #31

I flagged this, not because I have issues with the political stance, but because it adds absolutely nothing of substance to discuss. It's just a re-iteration that this administration is "hateful", "racist", "bigoted" and whatever else without anything compelling to convince anyone to change or even strengthen their views. I see nothing useful that can come from wasting discussions on this. I'm already regretting spen…

Stating facts is worth doing. Even if others want to disagree with them.

[deleted]

Re: Make America Hate Again

#93

Post by josefresco »

germinalphrase wrote: post #71
josefresco wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, the people I know personally who voted for Trump did so because they "didn't like Hillary" which I translate as "just to fuck with everyone". They knew who they were "supposed" to vote for, and rejected that. They didn't once repeat any of Trumps proposed policies or justify their choice based on public positions. They were given a choice between two flavors of politicians, and picked the one they liked…

As a Midwesterner, I've found many unexpected Trump voters who had similar motivations. A lot of: "well, Hillary isn't going to change anything and things need to change". Not a lot of deep consideration as to what this 'change' will mean (beyond potential reinvestment in infrastructure and "jobs"). I actually think this may be quite a problem for President Trump down the line. These are friendly, community minded pe…

I'm actually worried it won't be a problem. For those Americans who don't obsess over policy, all Trump needs to do is make them happy in the week of, or month of the re-election and he'll have a decent chance. Combine this with the voters in each side who "robo vote" for their party (mostly to prevent the other party from winning) and it will again be a close race. Lastly, many of the policy changes can't be easily measured (or take much longer for the effects to be felt) which allows the party in power to convince voters to stick with them to allow time for the new policies to take effect.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#94

Post by ChefDenominator »

csears wrote: post #83
Corristowolf wrote: post #56

Obama was the one who implemented the visa ban for 7 islamic countries. Trump is just continuing the policy and added a LGBTQ clause. The left is blowing this out of proportion, just because it's Trump. They had no problem with airstrikes everyday that Obama was in office. I wish the press could be more objective. Every country has a right to deny access to people from other countries. Same with all the islamic middl…

Obama barred access to the Visa Waiver Program for "High Risk" countries. This was not an outright ban on immigration, it just eliminated access to a "fast lane" for people who needed to visit the US for 90 days or less. Source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158/...

Obama also bombed them.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#95

Post by kalleboo »

puranjay wrote: post #61
strken wrote: post #14

Make sure to check out the comment down the bottom where Fred Wilson says he'll talk to Disqus about killing Breitbart's account, as well as the related discussion. As a non-American with less to lose, while I think the latest move by Trump is contemptible and stupid, a lot of the response to it seem counter-productive. People here (edit: on HN) and elsewhere are doubling down on hatred, both of Trump supporters and…

Pardon my ignorance - I'm not American and haven't followed this news - but how is everyone conflating it with "muslims"? I mean, my country has some 140M muslims (India), and my neighbors have some 330M muslims. As a layman, I just read the order and I thought "oh, so it's all war torn countries...but what's Iran doing in there?" not "oh, it's all muslim countries"

Because Trump went to election on "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" [0, donaldjtrump.com]

The fact that it was implemented as a ban on citizens from the most prominent Muslim-majority countries (as seen by the eyes of the average American voter, who forgot about Saudi Arabia) could be interpreted as a way for Trump to say he kept his pledge while not being instantly impeached for not protecting the Constitution as is the job of the president

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20170130001335/https://www.donal...

Re: Make America Hate Again

#96

Post by mikeash »

_xhok wrote: post #2

I agree with his stance on this, and I think Trump and his latest executive orders are awful, but I also think that at this point, "hatred," "bigotry," and "racism" should be excised from public discourse. These are labels. No one really knows what "hate" means anymore, but because people are emotional, they see the word, recall what they think of Trump, and think, "yeah, that's hateful!" This is a problem for two re…

While we're banning these other words, can we also ban "virtue signaling"? It basically means "you are being insincere" and is just as unproductive.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#97

Post by nailer »

metafunctor wrote: post #3

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

I think Trump's an idiot, but here 'racism' is being used to describe moves taken against groups that aren't actually races: illegal immigrants and Muslims. So yes, the term has become meaningless through overuse.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#98

Post by [deleted] »

hueving wrote: post #25
Jonnax wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling something/someone racist works on the principle that it's an undesired trait in society. However Trump's supporters either believe that other races/religions are inferior or believe their concerns are more important and ignore it. So what can someone do if they want to combat inequality/injustice/etc? It's not like their opponents are arguing with an open mind.

Or they don't believe they are being racist? Closing borders to some Muslim dominated countries while leaving them open to the largest Muslim countries in the world does give the impression that maybe it's not about being Muslim and it's more about nations.

[deleted]

Re: Make America Hate Again

#99

Post by 0xFFC »

towit wrote: post #89
0xFFC wrote: post #57

Iranian here, I do completely respect his decision , although I am 100% against his decision. The only point I don't get is how Trump is not same Trump before election, He talked about banning Muslim (I was born in Muslim family , although I am not Muslim and I am atheist , I want to clear things out that I am not against ordinary people.), But he literally banned people from countries which have not participated in…

Canada welcomes you.

Thank you so much, I think Canada and Australia are my main options now.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#100

Post by tluyben2 »

mikeash wrote: post #96
_xhok wrote: post #2

I agree with his stance on this, and I think Trump and his latest executive orders are awful, but I also think that at this point, "hatred," "bigotry," and "racism" should be excised from public discourse. These are labels. No one really knows what "hate" means anymore, but because people are emotional, they see the word, recall what they think of Trump, and think, "yeah, that's hateful!" This is a problem for two re…

While we're banning these other words, can we also ban "virtue signaling"? It basically means "you are being insincere" and is just as unproductive.

Never heard about that as maybe not a native English speaker. What is it?
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