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Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

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Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#131

Post by hackerboos »

andyjm wrote: post #110
daemin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that be including the E-3 for Australians as well?

The draft order is here: https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7872567/P... It doesn't mention the E-3 specifically, but the E-3 could come under review under the broader non-immigrant visa review provisions such as section 4d)i)A). The J-1 is specifically mentioned, which would affect Australian students on working holidays. Also, this order, if signed, would stop the international entrepreneur parole r…

L1 is mentioned in the order but when skimming it looks like they are only going to do site visits to make sure people are there.

It's funny because the L1 visa brings in far more people than the H1B because it has no cap.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#132

Post by sidlls »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #116
sidlls wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you think fast food is much different from no food or that the buses the impoverished here ride are "safe" (or always air conditioned, for that matter) leads me to believe you haven't experienced poverty in America. I have. It really tweaks me when people compare poverty in America favorably to poverty elsewhere.

Why do you think one needs to experience poverty to make accurate claims about it? Like it or not, the statistics show that poor Americans don't work very much, they are well fed, and they have living conditions that are not drastically different from the rich and are much better than most of the world. Feel free to try and prove me wrong. But I'm willing to gamble that all you've got is anecdotes, no stats.

Why do you think I think that? You haven't offered an argument to "prove wrong." You've offered assertions and antagonism. If your intent is to invite discussion, it isn't a very good attempt.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#133

Post by daemin »

andyjm wrote: post #110
daemin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that be including the E-3 for Australians as well?

The draft order is here: https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7872567/P... It doesn't mention the E-3 specifically, but the E-3 could come under review under the broader non-immigrant visa review provisions such as section 4d)i)A). The J-1 is specifically mentioned, which would affect Australian students on working holidays. Also, this order, if signed, would stop the international entrepreneur parole r…

That's sort of what I figured. That the usual suspects of visas get hit right now, but that all other visas would come under review in due time.

I shall have to see how it pans out, would have liked to work my next job in the USA.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#134

Post by hackerboos »

gagabity wrote: post #72

Kind of tangentially related, any clue what is going to happen to the Diversity Visa lottery?

Considering the only requirement is high school education, I think it's likely that DV is on the chopping block.

There a few fake articles that say it's cancelled already.

I've also read that DV visa holders from the 7 countries that are mentioned in last week's executive order will not be able to enter the United States.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#135

Post by yummyfajitas »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #119
yummyfajitas wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, it's a race's duty to place it's own people first. (Not actually my opinion, but for the sake of argument...) What principle makes your favored accident of birth ok to discriminate on, but not mine?

Good question. I would say, collective ownership. A country can be thought of as 'owned' by its people, with the rules of ownership agreed upon by the owners themselves (everyone owns an equal share -> 1 person 1 vote, ownership may not be transfered, but is given upon being born in the country or to an owner, and so on). This way, a country reduces to property. Should not the owners of property be free to manage it…

In that case, I suppose it's reasonable for a historically white suburb (with all white owners) to create rules for themselves that keep blacks out?

That way, a municipality reduces to property. Should not the owners of property be free to manage it in their own favor?

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#136

Post by taneq »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #124
DarkKomunalec wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is not equivalent. Hiring local has many beneficial effects over outsourcing - increased labour demand increases wages, the local pool of talent and technology is developed, and the money you spend will in turn mostly be spent in your own economy, growing it and paying taxes to your government. You could argue that these secondary effects do not outweigh the higher cost, and I'm sure sometimes that would be tr…

We are discussing hiring local workers, not outsourcing. The local workers just happen to be brown and born in a different place. The money will still be spent in your own economy. The choices are threefold: My preferred scheme (1): Low income taxpayers keep $30k and spend it themselves. Government pays for $70k from lowest bidding software engineer (possibly an Indian). Fergie's preferred scheme (2): Low income taxp…

> We are discussing hiring local workers, not outsourcing. The local workers just happen to be brown and born in a different place.

One distinction is that many immigrant workers will be sending money back to their family in their home country, resulting in a net drain on the economy in which they're working.

I'm not saying this is a good reason to make life harder for them, but I do think it's a fair point.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#137

Post by DarkKomunalec »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #124
DarkKomunalec wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is not equivalent. Hiring local has many beneficial effects over outsourcing - increased labour demand increases wages, the local pool of talent and technology is developed, and the money you spend will in turn mostly be spent in your own economy, growing it and paying taxes to your government. You could argue that these secondary effects do not outweigh the higher cost, and I'm sure sometimes that would be tr…

We are discussing hiring local workers, not outsourcing. The local workers just happen to be brown and born in a different place. The money will still be spent in your own economy. The choices are threefold: My preferred scheme (1): Low income taxpayers keep $30k and spend it themselves. Government pays for $70k from lowest bidding software engineer (possibly an Indian). Fergie's preferred scheme (2): Low income taxp…

They still depress wages, and they will take most of their wages back with them, where their families are, and the cost of living is lower. There have also been many reports of americans training their replacements, at which point the distinction to outsourcing disappears.

Finally, I take issue with your characterization of software engineers as 'high income' - as I understand it, compared to the cost of living, they don't make that much on average. But I would welcome statistics on this matter.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#138

Post by emperorcezar »

xHopen wrote: post #102

Maybe one day no one would like to live in USA, and the citizens will start migrating, investors will choose other countries, and then only "Americans" will live there. Then people will realise , we fucked it up , probably they will never get it.

Hopefully at that point they can migrate from the US to the Republic of California http://www.yescalifornia.org/

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#140

Post by VLM »

UK-AL wrote: post #21
barrkel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or how much developer employment will fall? (Two sides of the same coin.)

Surely you only get more unemployment when its artificially increased by law. There would be nothing stopping a individual developer accepting a lower salary. But probably won't because companies are desperate for them.

"But probably won't because companies are desperate for them."

Only in SV, maybe a couple other bubble towns. The most likely outcome is decentralization of SV and expansion of remote offices and remote working.

Its easy for a world-wide company colocated with dozens of other world-wide companies in just one city to exhaust the supply of even the devs who fail fizzbuzz. If you expand that labor pool to the rest of the country given the extreme level of over-education and un- and underemployment in general, its not going to be a problem to find new devs of a higher quality than the drained pool in SV.

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