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Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

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Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#91

Post by icebraining »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #80
yummyfajitas wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing competition between whites and negroes (by ending Jim Crow, Davis Bacon and similar laws) also encourages a race to the bottom. Do you have any principled reason for opposing those laws? (Note: I'm not calling you "racist" - that's a slur that has lost all meaning these days. I'm taking a policy I'm pretty sure you oppose and asking you for a principled reason why you oppose it.)

The Jim Crow laws were a government favoring some of its citizens over other citizens, whereas these laws favor citizens over foreigners. In my opinion, it is a country's duty to place its own people first, but in the end it's up to the electorate.

This is favoring some of its citizens (certain classes of workers) over other citizens (buyers in general, workers affected by reciprocal changes by other countries, etc).

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#92

Post by kilotaras »

thomasahle wrote: post #86
MarkMc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get local talent So it's not just a way to get regular software developers at a cheap price? OK let's raise the minimum salary requirement for H1B visas to $120k.

Or maybe something around the average software engineer pay scale of $80,000? What about student interns?

Student interns are not on H1B. It's J1 I believe.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#93

Post by d--b »

kapnobatairza wrote: post #61

I think the fairly straightforward solution to the H1B issue is to tie it to a salary requirement, rather than a lottery/other subjective measures. If I want to hire a software developer from abroad and I'm willing to pay him above-market rates relative to similar jobs, that should demonstrate that I'm hiring that person because of his skills/knowledge rather than trying to cut costs.

It's already the case. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Condition_Application)

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#94

Post by denzil_correa »

The overall idea makes sense. However, HOW remains a crucial detail. The work visa is to find people outside US if you do not mind local labor. We all know some companies abuse this system currently while some companies do not. One way would be to check the distribution of market salaries for the respected position and apply the doctorine of disparate impact 80% rule [0]. That will still be an issue if people are creative with their job titles but it is incredibly hard to find the right kind of incentives.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact#The_80.25_rul...

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#95

Post by threeseed »

DougBTX wrote: post #77
threeseed wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not that good for software developers or anyone really. Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get enough local talent. And so all that is going to happen is that companies are going to shift entire projects offshore or simply not take on as many projects. There does need to be reform. But frankly given the chaotic manner in which the Trump administration is crafting and implem…

> simply can't get enough local talent These things always need to be suffixed with "at price point x".

Sure. It's a nuanced discussion. It's not just about price. It's also about the various experience within the local talent pool. I still remember at Apple looking for WebObjects developers, finding none locally but dozens at Infosys. What exactly are companies supposed to do ?

And companies like Infosys are often playing in specific, less sexy spaces i.e. enterprise J2EE, DBAs, System Administration etc whilst newer generation of developers prefer Go, Rust, Javascript etc.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#96

Post by juhq »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #78
juhq wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You answered your own question. Government of course.

So general income taxes or deficit spending? Isn't that just unemployment insurance by another name?

Does it matter? Government collects taxes and then spends it as it chooses.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#97

Post by sheepmullet »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #36
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #8

I don't live in the USA currently but I have worked there before on a visa and I think the current system does require some sort of an overhaul. The current way of doing things is great for some companies and for customers who want to save money on IT services but I believe it does undermine wages (for Americans and others) and being on a visa tied to a company just opens up foreign developers to abuse (not the horri…

The current way of doing things is great for some companies and for customers who want to save money on IT services but I believe it does undermine wages (for Americans and others) Why do we care about increasing inequality and increasing costs to consumers by protecting high-wage American workers from foreign competition? and being on a visa tied to a company just opens up foreign developers to abuse I'd love to hea…

The type of developers at these chop shops are only hired by other chip shops.

If you think they are highly skilled workers who can waltz over to Facebook, google, etc and get a job then I've got a bridge to sell you.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#98

Post by yummyfajitas »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #80
yummyfajitas wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing competition between whites and negroes (by ending Jim Crow, Davis Bacon and similar laws) also encourages a race to the bottom. Do you have any principled reason for opposing those laws? (Note: I'm not calling you "racist" - that's a slur that has lost all meaning these days. I'm taking a policy I'm pretty sure you oppose and asking you for a principled reason why you oppose it.)

The Jim Crow laws were a government favoring some of its citizens over other citizens, whereas these laws favor citizens over foreigners. In my opinion, it is a country's duty to place its own people first, but in the end it's up to the electorate.

In my opinion, it's a race's duty to place it's own people first. (Not actually my opinion, but for the sake of argument...)

What principle makes your favored accident of birth ok to discriminate on, but not mine?

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#99

Post by dzhiurgis »

sidlls wrote: post #71
dzhiurgis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large part of consulting recruits consist of yes-men who will work extra hours, do whatever their manager say with no critical thinking and will put up with clients' bullshit. This is what needed for the type of business and it has little to do with talent. I am not sure how many proud Americans who would sign up for those positions.

This is just "Americans are lazy and entitled" written differently. We see similar arguments in the agriculture sector, where a different price dynamic exists. The difference is in the world of tech companies can actually afford to pay more because there isn't a horde of Americans who want the tech equivalent of dirt-cheap food keeping prices down. Americans actually have a very strong affinity for authority. Most wi…

First part still stands though. Tech companies might have money to pay, but not the businesses who consulting companies serve.

Regarding lazy and entitled - I am envious when poverty there is considered eating fast food and using safe, air conditioned bus.

If you are taking these pragmatic decisions at least have some self-deprecating humour with it.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#100

Post by yazbo_mcclure »

pessimizer wrote: post #83
dzhiurgis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large part of consulting recruits consist of yes-men who will work extra hours, do whatever their manager say with no critical thinking and will put up with clients' bullshit. This is what needed for the type of business and it has little to do with talent. I am not sure how many proud Americans who would sign up for those positions.

From zero to everyone, as a function of pay.

Jfc that hurt ugh so true
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