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Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

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Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#71

Post by sidlls »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #63
fergie wrote: post #45

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this may not be an altogether bad thing. From the article: "The foreign work visas were originally established to help U.S. companies recruit from abroad when they couldn’t find qualified local workers. But in recent years, there have been allegations the programs have been abused to bring in cheaper workers from overseas to fill jobs that otherwise may go to Americans…

A large part of consulting recruits consist of yes-men who will work extra hours, do whatever their manager say with no critical thinking and will put up with clients' bullshit. This is what needed for the type of business and it has little to do with talent. I am not sure how many proud Americans who would sign up for those positions.

This is just "Americans are lazy and entitled" written differently. We see similar arguments in the agriculture sector, where a different price dynamic exists. The difference is in the world of tech companies can actually afford to pay more because there isn't a horde of Americans who want the tech equivalent of dirt-cheap food keeping prices down.

Americans actually have a very strong affinity for authority. Most will put up with quite a bit especially for something they perceive as high paying.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#73

Post by juhq »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #68
yummyfajitas wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When companies like Tata are fulfilling government contracts, they _should_ be filling those positions with local labour at local rates. Here's an alternate proposal. Suppose it would cost $70k for the wrong type of people to provide labor, and $100k for the right type of person to provide labor. Lets continue having labor sold by the lowest cost provider. But then lets engage in direct wealth transfers; we'll have t…

Who pays for that $30k the government sends the displaced worker?

You answered your own question. Government of course.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#74

Post by bottled_poe »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #56
throwaway_374 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" increasing costs to consumers by protecting high-wage American workers from foreign competition?" Sorry I have to disagree, I am the most vehement loather of Trump and his fan base but fundamentally this just encourages a race to the bottom, does it not?

Allowing competition between whites and negroes (by ending Jim Crow, Davis Bacon and similar laws) also encourages a race to the bottom. Do you have any principled reason for opposing those laws? (Note: I'm not calling you "racist" - that's a slur that has lost all meaning these days. I'm taking a policy I'm pretty sure you oppose and asking you for a principled reason why you oppose it.)

Perhaps this ideology has been lost these days, but I believe a country has an obligation to provide services and a high quality of life to its citizens (aka taxpayers) before anyone else. Importing employees to fill roles (which local workers could do) cannibalises the taxpayer-funded foundations on which these companies were built.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#75

Post by d--b »

This is another media stunt. H1B visas are already american-first. Immigration rules make the applicant go through many hoops to prove that the job has been advertised and American people have been interviewing for the position before offering it to the H1B visa applicant. Of course, this is already silly, because companies can just fake it, and usually they hire the person they want for the skills they have. Everybody who's been through the visa process can attest how hard it already is.

But that's not the point. Of course a 90-day ban on immigration from 7 countries is not going to significantly improve the security of the US. Of course overhauling the worker visa process is not going to create more jobs for the American worker in the Michigan area. Being very unpopular, Trump's goal right now is to stay in place. And to do that, he needs to keep his voters voting for him at the next election. Trump's strategy is to keep the people who elected him happy with his moves, and to keep them offended by the backlashes he provokes. He needs them to be suspicious of the news, and of the elites, because then he can tell them whatever he wants. The message he wants to push is "look I've done what I've been elected to do, and nobody will let me." The more he can say that the media/elites won't let him, the more his voters will look away when he wants to shut them down.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#76

Post by threeseed »

anjc wrote: post #40
onion2k wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company can't recruit an immigrant worker on a visa they'll try recruit one of the currently unemployed local developers on the exact same package the immigrant would have been on. That has no impact on wages. If the job required a unique talent that would only have been possible to fill with an exceptionally talented immigrant worker then the job won't be filled, and the company will be consequently less compet…

Why would it drive wages down?! It'd be the exact opposite, and is the reason that wages have been stagnant in STEM, and is the reason for the wage collusion scandal. Companies would have to increase their offers to attract talent from other companies. Or they would have to - as used to be the case everywhere - accept that talent is nurtured from within.

Not sure what on earth you're expecting with STEM wages.

Across the economy and in most countries wages have been stagnant and STEM is no exception. And don't forget that most IT projects are not mandatory. If wages rise significantly companies will just cut back on projects which means more unemployed talent and hence the wages will drop back.

And there is no evidence that talent is better nurtured from within. It is just as beneficial for companies to have outsiders with unique experiences and viewpoints join.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#77

Post by DougBTX »

threeseed wrote: post #50
kyrre wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for software developers. Not so much for large companies that want to drive down salaries through indentured servitude (H1B).

No it's not that good for software developers or anyone really. Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get enough local talent. And so all that is going to happen is that companies are going to shift entire projects offshore or simply not take on as many projects. There does need to be reform. But frankly given the chaotic manner in which the Trump administration is crafting and implem…

> simply can't get enough local talent

These things always need to be suffixed with "at price point x".

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#78

Post by JumpCrisscross »

juhq wrote: post #73
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who pays for that $30k the government sends the displaced worker?

You answered your own question. Government of course.

So general income taxes or deficit spending? Isn't that just unemployment insurance by another name?

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#79

Post by omginternets »

ddorian43 wrote: post #6
akjainaj wrote: post #2

>Companies would have to try to hire American first and if they recruit foreign workers, priority would be given to the most highly paid. Wow, that's horrible. I mean, a country giving preference to their own kind. When is this nightmare going to end?

Damn no sense of sarcasm in here. Where's your pattern matching ?

>where's your pattern matching?

Inside the computer.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#80

Post by DarkKomunalec »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #56
throwaway_374 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" increasing costs to consumers by protecting high-wage American workers from foreign competition?" Sorry I have to disagree, I am the most vehement loather of Trump and his fan base but fundamentally this just encourages a race to the bottom, does it not?

Allowing competition between whites and negroes (by ending Jim Crow, Davis Bacon and similar laws) also encourages a race to the bottom. Do you have any principled reason for opposing those laws? (Note: I'm not calling you "racist" - that's a slur that has lost all meaning these days. I'm taking a policy I'm pretty sure you oppose and asking you for a principled reason why you oppose it.)

The Jim Crow laws were a government favoring some of its citizens over other citizens, whereas these laws favor citizens over foreigners. In my opinion, it is a country's duty to place its own people first, but in the end it's up to the electorate.
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