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Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

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Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#111

Post by sheepmullet »

threeseed wrote: post #76
anjc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it drive wages down?! It'd be the exact opposite, and is the reason that wages have been stagnant in STEM, and is the reason for the wage collusion scandal. Companies would have to increase their offers to attract talent from other companies. Or they would have to - as used to be the case everywhere - accept that talent is nurtured from within.

Not sure what on earth you're expecting with STEM wages. Across the economy and in most countries wages have been stagnant and STEM is no exception. And don't forget that most IT projects are not mandatory. If wages rise significantly companies will just cut back on projects which means more unemployed talent and hence the wages will drop back. And there is no evidence that talent is better nurtured from within. It i…

> If wages rise significantly companies will just cut back on projects

The more likely outcome is companies will adopt more efficient work practices.

A slowly rising cost of labor fuels automation and increased value for society.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#112

Post by sidlls »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #99
sidlls wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just "Americans are lazy and entitled" written differently. We see similar arguments in the agriculture sector, where a different price dynamic exists. The difference is in the world of tech companies can actually afford to pay more because there isn't a horde of Americans who want the tech equivalent of dirt-cheap food keeping prices down. Americans actually have a very strong affinity for authority. Most wi…

First part still stands though. Tech companies might have money to pay, but not the businesses who consulting companies serve. Regarding lazy and entitled - I am envious when poverty there is considered eating fast food and using safe, air conditioned bus. If you are taking these pragmatic decisions at least have some self-deprecating humour with it.

That you think fast food is much different from no food or that the buses the impoverished here ride are "safe" (or always air conditioned, for that matter) leads me to believe you haven't experienced poverty in America.

I have. It really tweaks me when people compare poverty in America favorably to poverty elsewhere.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#114

Post by 1019280121 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #98
DarkKomunalec wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Jim Crow laws were a government favoring some of its citizens over other citizens, whereas these laws favor citizens over foreigners. In my opinion, it is a country's duty to place its own people first, but in the end it's up to the electorate.

In my opinion, it's a race's duty to place it's own people first. (Not actually my opinion, but for the sake of argument...) What principle makes your favored accident of birth ok to discriminate on, but not mine?

So, according to your philosophy, I could go to Saudi Arabia and claim an oil well?

What is your principle? Anarchism, world government, no borders? I honestly do not understand your point.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#115

Post by a-non-emu »

Chris2048 wrote: post #34
onion2k wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company can't recruit an immigrant worker on a visa they'll try recruit one of the currently unemployed local developers on the exact same package the immigrant would have been on. That has no impact on wages. If the job required a unique talent that would only have been possible to fill with an exceptionally talented immigrant worker then the job won't be filled, and the company will be consequently less compet…

Why assume a specialized job "won't be filled", but a job were "the exact same package the immigrant would have been on" is offered will? I believe H1B visas are currently used to get workers who accept lower-than-average wages; Hence the same jobs offered to non H1B workers at that level won't be attractive.

H-1B data is public. You can go see what Google, Apple, Amazon et al are paying their H-1B workers. It's no different from what any American worker would get for the same positions.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#116

Post by yummyfajitas »

sidlls wrote: post #112
dzhiurgis wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First part still stands though. Tech companies might have money to pay, but not the businesses who consulting companies serve. Regarding lazy and entitled - I am envious when poverty there is considered eating fast food and using safe, air conditioned bus. If you are taking these pragmatic decisions at least have some self-deprecating humour with it.

That you think fast food is much different from no food or that the buses the impoverished here ride are "safe" (or always air conditioned, for that matter) leads me to believe you haven't experienced poverty in America. I have. It really tweaks me when people compare poverty in America favorably to poverty elsewhere.

Why do you think one needs to experience poverty to make accurate claims about it?

Like it or not, the statistics show that poor Americans don't work very much, they are well fed, and they have living conditions that are not drastically different from the rich and are much better than most of the world.

Feel free to try and prove me wrong. But I'm willing to gamble that all you've got is anecdotes, no stats.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#117

Post by d--b »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #113

I love HN. Trump hating on Iranians and Mexicans. HN: "I hate Trump, he's so mean to immigrants. And avocado prices will go up! ::angry face:: Trump hating on Indians who took our jobs! HN: "Protectionism for me too? ::swoons::"

So true!

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#118

Post by wmccullough »

sidlls wrote: post #71
dzhiurgis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large part of consulting recruits consist of yes-men who will work extra hours, do whatever their manager say with no critical thinking and will put up with clients' bullshit. This is what needed for the type of business and it has little to do with talent. I am not sure how many proud Americans who would sign up for those positions.

This is just "Americans are lazy and entitled" written differently. We see similar arguments in the agriculture sector, where a different price dynamic exists. The difference is in the world of tech companies can actually afford to pay more because there isn't a horde of Americans who want the tech equivalent of dirt-cheap food keeping prices down. Americans actually have a very strong affinity for authority. Most wi…

You may not like the argument that "proud" Americans wouldn't put up with the same thing, but it's true. Not liking the statement doesn't make reality less real. I see this day in and day out in tech companies with my own eyes. Long after everyone else has gone home, the contractors are working and dealing with last minute client changes to the point where they are exhausted. Meanwhile, their onshore counterparts make statements like, "fuck these clients for asking for something so crazy, you can bet your ass I'm not working late for this!" Or the ever popular "I don't get paid enough for this!" While the contracts are getting much less and even then, losing a cut of their own money to a contracting house.

This is a two sided coin where American companies have abused this and American workers see themselves as I've heard so many times: "temporarily embarrassed millionaires"

Our country has become the equivalent of a second generation family where the kids are all spoiled and the parents threaten to give our toys away to the poor kids down the street every other week.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#119

Post by DarkKomunalec »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #98
DarkKomunalec wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Jim Crow laws were a government favoring some of its citizens over other citizens, whereas these laws favor citizens over foreigners. In my opinion, it is a country's duty to place its own people first, but in the end it's up to the electorate.

In my opinion, it's a race's duty to place it's own people first. (Not actually my opinion, but for the sake of argument...) What principle makes your favored accident of birth ok to discriminate on, but not mine?

Good question. I would say, collective ownership. A country can be thought of as 'owned' by its people, with the rules of ownership agreed upon by the owners themselves (everyone owns an equal share -> 1 person 1 vote, ownership may not be transfered, but is given upon being born in the country or to an owner, and so on). This way, a country reduces to property. Should not the owners of property be free to manage it in their own favour?

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#120

Post by Eyas »

kilotaras wrote: post #92
thomasahle wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe something around the average software engineer pay scale of $80,000? What about student interns?

Student interns are not on H1B. It's J1 I believe.

Exchange interns are J1, student interns in the US use their current F1 Visa with a CPT (Curricular Practical Training) permit for summer internship, or sometimes an OPT (Optional Practical Training) permit.
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