France bans unlimited sugary drink refills • Hacker News Board

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#131

Post by swift » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:50 PM UTC

drdaeman wrote: post #109

Retra wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, those costs are externalized in healthcare, which has a large and real public effect.

Ahem. Unless my reading/understanding is wrong, parent comment was about reasons for banning heroin. Yep, heroin has negative health effects. Yep, ban has all sorts of economic consequences. I don't think many would argue with that. Still, are those the reasons why it and alike substances were banned in the first place? I believe your points are different from what caused my disagreement.

Opiate prohibition also has a lot to do with racism against Asians, who used to be associated with opiates in the mind of the public. Similarly the prohibition against marijuana in the US has a lot to do with racist attitudes towards Latino and Black people. Attitudes towards drugs often have less to do with the drug itself and more to do with who's doing it.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#132

Post by Arkaad » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:50 PM UTC

Cuuugi wrote: post #103

digitalengineer wrote: post #7

I remember my vacation in the states (in the South). I got served a absolutely massive glass of coca-cola with my dinner. When I had finally managed to finish it a waiter came and refilled the bloody thing when I wasn't paying attention. How can you enjoy your meal with that much to drink?

I remember as a child, my family went to a chinese restaurant. While there the waitress was really on top of filling my glass of water. I thought it would be rude to not drink it. I threw up on the way home. Don't be like 6 year old me. If you don't want to drink something, don't drink it.

Funny, the same thing happened to my brother too.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#133

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

jamesmp98 wrote: post #125

realusername wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is that sarcasm?

It was, I'm suprised that of all issues this generates such a strong response

[deleted]

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#134

Post by drdaeman » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:56 PM UTC

Retra wrote: post #112

userbinator wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live the way the government wants me to.

Is that what you think this it? Do you actually think this is unjust and oppressive? To me it looks like a government doing what it is designed to do: govern. AKA "conduct the policy, actions, and affairs of (a state, organization, or people)." Perhaps you should describe to me the devastating consequences of this law, so that I may better understand your suffering.

A proper balance is important, though. Let government regulate too much and things will get really bad.

The problem is in defining what would be "too much" (and "too few"). Here, the opinions digress heavily.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#135

Post by stinos » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 5:07 PM UTC

FrancoDiaz wrote: post #108

realusername wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

socialist = banning unlimited soda refills ? seriously ?

Yes, nanny-state, authoritarianism is part of the socialist ideological grouping. Socialists have always advocated the state making little, "lifestyle" decisions like this. The state "knows better", and you have lots of people agreeing. Look at the top comment and its children comments on this story. You have people applauding this law and saying that people are too stupid to know when to not get a refill. These are…

The state "knows better", and you have lots of people agreeing.

Doesn't obesity prove, in this case, the state really does know better? You could argue people are free to be as obese as they want, but only knowingly imo. The actual problem is a lot of people don't realize they're basically being tricked into unhealthy obese living by MegaCorps wanting to get them hooked on their product.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#136

Post by paulddraper » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 5:07 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #120

FrancoDiaz wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, nanny-state, authoritarianism is part of the socialist ideological grouping. Socialists have always advocated the state making little, "lifestyle" decisions like this. The state "knows better", and you have lots of people agreeing. Look at the top comment and its children comments on this story. You have people applauding this law and saying that people are too stupid to know when to not get a refill. These are…

Fighting for better health is authoritarianism now? that's a new one. I did not hear that argument when countries are raising cigarette taxes. Australia with one of the highest cigarette tax is also a socialist country then? The laissez faire regarding food in the US does not seem to work very well since the US is one of the worst developed country regarding obesity.

> Fighting for better health is authoritarianism now? that's a new one.

No definition of authoritarianism has ever defined there to be good or bad motivations for the laws, just that they are strict and limit personal freedom.

> did not hear that argument when countries are raising cigarette taxes.

You haven't?!? Then what arguments against raising cigarette taxes have you heard?

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#137

Post by nilkn » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #41

rhapsodic wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I remember my vacation in the states (in the South). I got served a absolutely massive glass of coca-cola with my dinner. When I had finally managed to finish it a waiter came and refilled the bloody thing when I wasn't paying attention. How can you enjoy your meal with that much to drink? Are you from a place where there is a cultural taboo against only drinking part of the beverage a restaurant serves you? Saying…

> Are you from a place where there is a cultural taboo against only drinking part of the beverage a restaurant serves you? I think that describes most of the world, if allowance is made for places where leaving the last sip (or last mouthful, for food) shows enough was served.

I've never felt this pressure in the US. For food, sure. I was always told growing up to finish my food at each meal. But for water or soda, never.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#138

Post by tom_mellior » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 5:14 PM UTC

rrauenza wrote: post #31

chmod775 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because some insignificant (read: small) country has the lowest rate. It's easier to make comparisons when the population size is in the same order of magnitude.

I wonder what the relative smoking rates are... http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2005-08-28/news/SMOKING_... Some researchers have hypothesized that America's obesity rate is somewhat correlated with dropping smoking rates.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette... France is relatively low on the list among EU countries.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#139

Post by tom_mellior » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #128

mlok wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drinks with "added sugar substitutes" are banned as well. (From the link to the law text) https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFT...

Sugar substitutes tends to mean things like HFCS, Agave syrup, honey, etc: things that are sugar but not always called sugar on the label. Is that the case here, or is France really banning the artificial sweeteners too?

Yes, drinks with artificial sweeteners are also affected by the ban on refills. No, France is not "banning artificial sweeteners".

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#140

Post by drdaeman » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #70

Jdam wrote: post #14

Is it just me who's thinking that individuals in modern societies are not capable anymore of making meaningful decisions, including how much to drink? We're sacrificing freedom here because we became incapable. That scares me.

The freedom of having a society full of overweight people? This decision looks quite reasonable to me and has nothing to do with freedom.

Think about the normal-weight (or underweight) normal-blood-sugar minorities who happen enjoy soft drinks.

I'm not saying the regulation is right or wrong, good or bad.

But I'd say such regulations most likely do impact their personal freedoms.

And even if that's for the good of others (no arguing with that), and even if it's in another country - I guess, it still can't be helped to not feel somewhat disappointed.