France bans unlimited sugary drink refills • Hacker News Board

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#101

Post by BlahBoy3 » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:27 PM UTC

canadian_voter wrote: post #24

I'd rather live in a country that provides comprehensive free health care and limits soda consumption, than one that allows me the "freedom" to consume as much sugar as possible and makes me pay for the consequences. I must be a radical hippie leftist: I think we should tax the sh-t out of refined sugar and subsidize organic vegetable farms.

Not trying to start a flame war, but to offer a counterpoint: I don't believe that taxes should be used as a means to control people's behavior. If you put huge taxes on products that you deem to be socially unacceptable, you are simply making it harder for lower income families to access them, while wealthier individuals can continue to access them with little to no consequence. Maybe I'm interpreting this incorrectly, but this sounds like a classic example of a regressive tax.

And why is it up to us to say that poor people should have limited access to sugary products? Shouldn't that be a personal decision? Feel free to disagree, but I personally believe that if we're going to subsidize the organic industry, we shouldn't simultaneously be punishing people that just want their soda.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#102

Post by saint_fiasco » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:28 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #35

rhapsodic wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I remember my vacation in the states (in the South). I got served a absolutely massive glass of coca-cola with my dinner. When I had finally managed to finish it a waiter came and refilled the bloody thing when I wasn't paying attention. How can you enjoy your meal with that much to drink? Are you from a place where there is a cultural taboo against only drinking part of the beverage a restaurant serves you? Saying…

Most countries in the world will have taboos on wasting food, built over thousands of years of scarcity.

Also a couple decades of over-abundance. Remember "reduce, reuse, recycle"

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#103

Post by Cuuugi » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:28 PM UTC

digitalengineer wrote: post #7

I remember my vacation in the states (in the South). I got served a absolutely massive glass of coca-cola with my dinner. When I had finally managed to finish it a waiter came and refilled the bloody thing when I wasn't paying attention. How can you enjoy your meal with that much to drink?

I remember as a child, my family went to a chinese restaurant.

While there the waitress was really on top of filling my glass of water. I thought it would be rude to not drink it. I threw up on the way home.

Don't be like 6 year old me. If you don't want to drink something, don't drink it.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#104

Post by aembleton » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:28 PM UTC

stinos wrote: post #60

rhapsodic wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I remember my vacation in the states (in the South). I got served a absolutely massive glass of coca-cola with my dinner. When I had finally managed to finish it a waiter came and refilled the bloody thing when I wasn't paying attention. How can you enjoy your meal with that much to drink? Are you from a place where there is a cultural taboo against only drinking part of the beverage a restaurant serves you? Saying…

For me, and probably many Europeans: yes, that is how we are raised. It's not su much of being taboo, more like a sense that it makes no sense to waste anything (not just food/water) and is bad for the planet in general. (well, there is truth in that). My parents even had a picture of a bunch of underfed kids from Ethiopia (or so) on the wall in the kitchen. If we didn't eat our plate, they'd point to it and say some…

My parents had the same attitude and I'm from the UK. My Dad passed away at a younger age than his father from obesity related conditions and it was then that I realised that my parents generation (born in the 50s) were the first in history to have access to unlimited food.

Their own parents had instilled in them this view that you must finish your plate. They had experience of rationing. My parents continued this attitude probably because this just seemed like the thing to do but really this sort of thing seems like a bad thing when many of us are overweight.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#105

Post by gdulli » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:28 PM UTC

meanduck wrote: post #80

> man has been proven by several dozens of studies If so Trump can back his actions by "several dozens of studies", then its ok right ? > If your definition of "freedom" is "doing whatever the fuck I want without any limitations no matter the consequences", then I fail to see how this is a value worth pursuing. Individual never do right. Collective never do wrong. Hmmm. Leave us alone. Please.

What does Trump have to do with this? This happened in France, it's in the headline.

Trump would be against this, he'd likely allow Coca Cola lobbyists to write FDA policy if they were in his corner.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#106

Post by swift » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:29 PM UTC

stinos wrote: post #60

rhapsodic wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I remember my vacation in the states (in the South). I got served a absolutely massive glass of coca-cola with my dinner. When I had finally managed to finish it a waiter came and refilled the bloody thing when I wasn't paying attention. How can you enjoy your meal with that much to drink? Are you from a place where there is a cultural taboo against only drinking part of the beverage a restaurant serves you? Saying…

For me, and probably many Europeans: yes, that is how we are raised. It's not su much of being taboo, more like a sense that it makes no sense to waste anything (not just food/water) and is bad for the planet in general. (well, there is truth in that). My parents even had a picture of a bunch of underfed kids from Ethiopia (or so) on the wall in the kitchen. If we didn't eat our plate, they'd point to it and say some…

That's how most people I know were raised in the US, too. As an adult, I've consciously tried to move away from this attitude, because it leads to obesity. It's especially problematic in the South, where I'm from, given the absolutely massive portions that are traditional there. (And it shows in the pervasive obesity of the population.) My rule now is that I stop eating as soon as I'm full. It's sometimes a struggle to make myself follow it, though.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#107

Post by philipodonnell » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:29 PM UTC

If I'm Coca-Cola or Pepsi or run a large restaurant chain in the US, I'm pushing this ban everywhere.

Restaurants price soda to include the cost of people who get the free refills and the margins are high because of it.

If the government suddenly banned free refills, restaurants won't lower prices because it will hurt top-line revenue and buying decisions aren't made on the price of soda with your meal. Consumption goes down but prices are stable means profits are higher, so Coke and Pepsi can raise their prices to restaurants, say both sides capture half that new margin.

Soda makers win, restaurants win, consumers win because consuming less sugar assuming they don't pay for a refill, taxpayers win by lower burden on healthcare. Sounds great.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#108

Post by FrancoDiaz » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:29 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #55

MarcusBrutus wrote: post #54

The depths of socialist / collectivist depravity that the French are willing to descend to are mind-staggering. And to think that, from time to time, one sees in HN some random joke of a post portraying France as a plausible startup location. Quelle décadence!

socialist = banning unlimited soda refills ? seriously ?

Yes, nanny-state, authoritarianism is part of the socialist ideological grouping.

Socialists have always advocated the state making little, "lifestyle" decisions like this. The state "knows better", and you have lots of people agreeing.

Look at the top comment and its children comments on this story. You have people applauding this law and saying that people are too stupid to know when to not get a refill.

These are the same people that wring their hands about Trump being an authoritarian, but applaud stupid, nanny state laws like this.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#109

Post by drdaeman » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:30 PM UTC

Retra wrote: post #92

drdaeman wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe your comparison isn't correct. Or, at least, is a bad example. Certain substances are banned not (just) because they're harmful but because its addicts way too frequently tend to exhibit certain behaviors that are harmful to others. Don't think it's any common to hear about a soda, coffee or chocolate addict incurring violence on drug-fueled rampage, or stealing to get another dose.

No, those costs are externalized in healthcare, which has a large and real public effect.

Ahem. Unless my reading/understanding is wrong, parent comment was about reasons for banning heroin.

Yep, heroin has negative health effects. Yep, ban has all sorts of economic consequences. I don't think many would argue with that. Still, are those the reasons why it and alike substances were banned in the first place?

I believe your points are different from what caused my disagreement.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#110

Post by FrancoDiaz » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 4:30 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #82

MarcusBrutus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business is willing to offer me free soda refills and I freely choose to patronize thar business, then it takes a hardcore Stalinist to dare stand between us two and prevent by the force of guns this peacefull, voluntary exchange. Does one really need to explain that in the 21st century?

It's called a public health service! A wonderful thing which avoids becoming a society full of overweight and unhealthy individuals like the United States.

I applaud your very 1984-like spin on the law.