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France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

bbc.com

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Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#91

Post by johnchristopher »

verstaen wrote: post #68
johnchristopher wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very interesting debate to have. FTR: I remember reading somewhere something about a discussion between the USSR and the USA after WWII that went more or less like this: "Better to have a belly full with state jobs than jobless and hungry free men".

You still have the freedom to drink as much as you want in France. This is not about the freedom to drink, this is about fighting obesity.

That is not entirely true. For instance you can't drink in the street or be inebriated in public places.

France also used to serve wine in schools (http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/47/74/06/20160130/ob_1c8cee_...).

Maybe some law makers will come up with the idea to forbid sugary drinks and fast food to less than 18 or 21 years old (like it is for alcohol and cigarettes in some countries).

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#92

Post by Retra »

drdaeman wrote: post #72
krastanov wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making an argument based on taking this to an extreme. But take it to the other extreme: is it governmental overreach that heroin is banned or is it a good public health policy? The merits of this new French law can be argued, but it is not an obvious overreach.

I believe your comparison isn't correct. Or, at least, is a bad example. Certain substances are banned not (just) because they're harmful but because its addicts way too frequently tend to exhibit certain behaviors that are harmful to others. Don't think it's any common to hear about a soda, coffee or chocolate addict incurring violence on drug-fueled rampage, or stealing to get another dose.

No, those costs are externalized in healthcare, which has a large and real public effect.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#93

Post by CJefferson »

mlok wrote: post #39
Jdam wrote: post #14

Is it just me who's thinking that individuals in modern societies are not capable anymore of making meaningful decisions, including how much to drink? We're sacrificing freedom here because we became incapable. That scares me.

Giant and strong Industries are manipulating us. They invest billions for this. We are too weak to fight against this, these overwhelming number of battlefronts : it's too difficult, too complex, too time consuming, so we give up. We have no choice but to give up on so many of them. We have no choice. This regulation will help us take less sugar in. And that's a good thing.

I agree. If I, as an individual, could opt out of having sugary drinks shoved in my face on the TV, in every shop, vending machine, newspaper and cafe, then I would agree there was no need for control.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#95

Post by DougN7 »

canadian_voter wrote: post #24

I'd rather live in a country that provides comprehensive free health care and limits soda consumption, than one that allows me the "freedom" to consume as much sugar as possible and makes me pay for the consequences. I must be a radical hippie leftist: I think we should tax the sh-t out of refined sugar and subsidize organic vegetable farms.

You surely also would like the state to ban tobacco, alcohol and weed since it also has proven negative consequences? Can't have it both ways.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#96

Post by notpc »

chimeracoder wrote: post #15
krastanov wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making an argument based on taking this to an extreme. But take it to the other extreme: is it governmental overreach that heroin is banned or is it a good public health policy? The merits of this new French law can be argued, but it is not an obvious overreach.

> But take it to the other extreme: is it governmental overreach that heroin is banned or is it a good public health policy? Given that the most effective treatment for heroin addiction is diacetylmorphine maintenance (aka, prescription-strength heroin)[0], I'd say it's definitely governmental overreach. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment

I'm not in favor of restricting soda, but I strongly contest the heroin example you're giving.

To call that "treatment" is really playing with the terms and shifting the goal posts. It's like saying that the treatment for gambling is to have unlimited money. You may be solving one problem, but you're not solving the central issue. Black-market heroin is particularly bad, but so is being addicted to opiates at all.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#97

Post by whazor »

Jdam wrote: post #14

Is it just me who's thinking that individuals in modern societies are not capable anymore of making meaningful decisions, including how much to drink? We're sacrificing freedom here because we became incapable. That scares me.

Problem is that we get lured into doing things we shouldn't do.

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#98

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

branchless wrote: post #18
xyzzy4 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to finish your drink.

Many Americans accept gluttony and waste, both trouble many parts of the world. Obesity you are way ahead. But you do have a lot in common with the Mexicans for whatever reason: https://healthhabits.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/how-fat-is-... But food waste actaully the USA isn't that far ahead of others, so I partly take that back: http://www.dow.com/performanceplastics/make-it-last/global-v...

The only waste from unfinished soda is the syrup. You'd have to clean the water after you peed it out anyway, and water gets recycled in most places.

Real scarcity is a cause for moderation, and Americans aren't always good at that, but clean water is a highly renewable resource in the US (except in areas where the system is corrupt or there's tons of wasteful agriculture, neither of which is fixed by drinking less).

Re: France bans unlimited sugary drink refills

#100

Post by DougN7 »

superzadeh wrote: post #53
rhapsodic wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I remember my vacation in the states (in the South). I got served a absolutely massive glass of coca-cola with my dinner. When I had finally managed to finish it a waiter came and refilled the bloody thing when I wasn't paying attention. How can you enjoy your meal with that much to drink? Are you from a place where there is a cultural taboo against only drinking part of the beverage a restaurant serves you? Saying…

> Are you from a place where there is a cultural taboo against only drinking part of the beverage a restaurant serves you? Not a specific culture, it is only abouy not waisting food and drinks. Remember many people still don't have enough of both to live.

Whether you drink your drink or not, once it's in your glass, it's not able to go to someone else. Might as well pour it down the drain if you don't want it. At least it will help keep the sewer system running well.
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