Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia • Hacker News Board

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#211

Post by tritosomal » Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 5:48 AM UTC

pizza wrote: post #206

derefr wrote: post #25

This makes me wonder what the modern world would look like if all "recreational drugs" suddenly disappeared, and so all the people who were implicitly, unknowingly self-medicating for a mental illness by using recreational drugs, suddenly weren't. What percentage of the population would go from seemingly neurotypical, to perceivably mentally ill? How much more common would conditions like schizophrenia be?

The older I get, the more "neurotypical" becomes synonymous for capitalism-compatible. No matter the size of your parachute/coping mechanism, if you fall on Jupiter, it's not the (decelerated) fall that kills you, it's the jostling torture of simultaneously hitting fluid from under you, and being crushed by the weight of fluid above.

I'm inclined to agree with you. ADHD seems to be simply a code word for prescribing amphetamines to people who are confronted by the genuinely boring reality of sitting in the same room with the same people who do nothing and go nowhere for years on end.

Unfortunately other economies and models of social order demand similarly horrific obedience, and capitalism is not alone. It's just the thing we got stuck with.

Feels like a prison on both sides of the bars.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#212

Post by adventured » Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 5:49 AM UTC

cmdrfred wrote: post #110

lucasmullens wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because someone who chewed nicotine gum got a cyst we should ban vaping in offices? I'm not sure I follow.

People shouldn't vape in offices for the same reason they shouldn't pass gas. It smells and it's rude.

If I were picking an analogy for the office, making popcorn in a small office space on a regular basis, would be it. The smell will linger for hours and it covers a wide area.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#213

Post by PhasmaFelis » Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 5:50 AM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #118

77pt77 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of all the medical professionals I've ever dealt with, psychiatrists are the laziest and least imaginative. Also the ones with the most power over patients. A dangerous combination in my opinion.

Even more dangerous when you consider this paper. [1] In particular, see point two, "Psychology is less politically diverse than ever". Academic psychology seems to lean Democrat by a ratio of 14:1! Fourteen to one! That kind of bias is ridiculous when you consider the power they have over their patients and the politically-infused repercussions of their diagnosis. Case in point: gun ownership. [1]: http://heterodoxa…

Don't scientists and medical people in general tend to lean left?

It's perhaps not too surprising that people who care enough about medicine to make a career of it don't much like the party that, broadly, tends to cut public medical coverage. Gay people lean left for a similar reason.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#214

Post by tomcam » Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 5:52 AM UTC

bkanber wrote: post #165

tomcam wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not parent, but nothing I have tried improves my sleep. Baseline is just bad. Exercise, meditation, alarms – nothing works. The only thing that raised the baseline was quitting caffeine.

Have you tried reducing carb intake? Particularly in the later part of the day. I've gone "keto" 3 times for about 6 months each, and my sleep is always excellent during those periods. When I looked into it I found that elevated insulin levels throughout the night can disrupt sleep.

Yes. Totally did not work, but I genuinely appreciate the suggestion

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#215

Post by nerflad » Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 5:52 AM UTC

angry-hacker wrote: post #198

rtpg wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another ADD-diagnosed person, my understanding is the current consensus is that ADD is simply a different manifestation of ADHD. That is to say, same underlying root cause, so treatment can be similar. Didn't know about the nicotine angle though, kind of interested in the research on this.

I'm sorry for this rude person but are there, or why, so any Americans with adhd. I don't know anyone having it here and I meet a lot of Hackers... The population should be similar. Here it feels like everyone has it or knows about it.

I don't argue with my diagnosis (in high school), but I disagree very much with the immediate decision to medicate. I felt very strongly at the time that the whole point was to sell medicine to my parents (Vyvance in my case).

It was just, "oh, his GPA's low? Seems like he can't focus? Here are some amphetamines, have a nice day!", with zero follow up about whether the medication was doing its job (didn't matter -- I never took it anyway).

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#216

Post by tomcam » Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 5:54 AM UTC

digler999 wrote: post #186

tomcam wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating story. Sorry it has become tougher since quitting--a near Sophie's Choice predicament. I find M.D.'s to be alarmingly low in intellectual curiosity.

The stakes are pretty high to get "curious" with applying medical treatments. So it's not surprising that the field selects (or teaches) them to dampen their curiosity. There's malady A whose treatment options are {a,b,c..}. The algorithm of treating the malady doesn't align itself with being curious. From an outsider, it seems like the difficulty in being an MD lies in knowing all the maladies and correctly applying…

Agree 100%. It is not that I am asking them to come up with unproven, novel treatments, merely to think the problem through a little bit more.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#217

Post by kqr » Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 5:56 AM UTC

voltagex_ wrote: post #203

mgcross wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yohimbine is a horrible experience. Used clinically to induce anxiety attacks, and does so very well.

Wow, why would you want/need to induce an anxiety attack?

Not a real answer but I consider myself lucky I had my first one in the ER (which I was in at the time for other reasons). The medical staff could in a calm and collected manner explain to me exactly what I was experiencing and what mechanisms in my body was activating and it all became so much easier to deal with.

I can only imagine having your first one alone or among inexperienced people and how much more horrifying that must be.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#218

Post by rtpg » Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 6:20 AM UTC

angry-hacker wrote: post #198

rtpg wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another ADD-diagnosed person, my understanding is the current consensus is that ADD is simply a different manifestation of ADHD. That is to say, same underlying root cause, so treatment can be similar. Didn't know about the nicotine angle though, kind of interested in the research on this.

I'm sorry for this rude person but are there, or why, so any Americans with adhd. I don't know anyone having it here and I meet a lot of Hackers... The population should be similar. Here it feels like everyone has it or knows about it.

I think it's more a perception because America is more progressive about mental health care than most countries (maybe thanks to big pharma, I don't know though). It's extremely likely for ADHD to be under-reported in other countries because of the lack of screening for this sort of thing.

In my experience in other countries, the primary difficulty for ADHD support groups is that many country's medical institutions do not even acknowledge ADHD as a thing.

Some of these institutions acknowledge, but seem to believe that the condition disappears when you turn 18.

Many of the regulatory institutions don't allow stimulants to be used for treatment, either.

This is mostly an anti-scientific position. ADHD is extremely well-researched. Its (medication-based, not CBT) treatment is the most effective of any mental illness, more so than "understood" things like depression.

I'm biased, but I think a lot of places are still in denial about ADHD. There's way too much research around the illness and its effects and treatment.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#219

Post by rhizome » Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 6:20 AM UTC

jcoffland wrote: post #208

maw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound as though sleep quality were something everyone has control over, which is not at all the case.

Actually, most people could get more sleep of they chose to. Or at least they could get more rest. Stop watching shows and movies, put down your phone, close your eyes, shut up and sleep.

"Most people" being defined as those without physiological nor psychological effects on their quality of sleep, I presume.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#220

Post by rhizome » Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 6:34 AM UTC

cowpewter wrote: post #202

matthewbauer wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered: how do they establish a drug causes suicide? I mean they're not literally giving people suicidal thoughts. How do they make people more prone to suicide?

As far as I'm aware, the currently prevailing theory is that many deeply depressed people may be be having suicidal thoughts, but their depression is also so strong that they don't have the energy and/or motivation to actually go through with it. Apathy is winning. As the drugs start to lift you out of the hole of apathy, you suddenly start to have more energy and motivation, but you're still depressed. So you still…

I think you're combining Prozac's increased-suicide effect and the well-known danger zone of depression recovery:

https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc?t=480

I suppose there could be something in Prozac being an engine of recovery without support (or suicide watch), essentially launching people into the danger zone, but I don't know.