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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#631

Post by [deleted] »

afterburner wrote: post #172
djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

"the Hillary e-mails are actually very chilling when you start reading through them" What chilled you, specifically?

[deleted]

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#632

Post by stevehb »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #497
hendersoon wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is completely correct. Snowden released his information to journalists who carefully vetted each item for newsworthiness with the participation of the US government. Then that data was parceled out over many months, so it would remain in daily news cycles and continue to generate commentary over that time, staying in the public's mind. Manning gave her data to Wikileaks, who posted it online in its entirety…

When did The Guardian or the South China Morning Post vet anything with the US government?

The Guardian ran everything by the US government first before publishing. Every responsible journalist does. They're looking for a response or comment to the story, to make sure they didn't get anything wrong, and to see if there's a any reason to withhold details (a reason beyond "It's classified so don't").

In fact, in Greenwald's book No Place to Hide, he describes how they held off publishing for several days while waiting for a response from the government. Greenwald was so frustrated with the delays that he considered quitting the Guardian and going on his own. I think that's the idea that eventually turned into The Intercept.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#633

Post by drawnwren »

shalmanese wrote: post #532
cdubzzz wrote: post #254

> “Mr. Snowden fled into the arms of an adversary, and has sought refuge in a country that most recently made a concerted effort to undermine confidence in our democracy.” What an amazingly loaded statement that is. Russia is just a straight up "adversary" now? Infuriating.

It's also worth noting that the only reason Snowden is currently in Russia is due to actions by the US State Department. Snowden left Hong Kong with a plane ticket to Cuba by way of Moscow. While he was on the plane, the US State Department revoked his passport, forcing him to miss his connecting flight. To make it seem like it was in any way a deliberate choice on his part is rewriting history.

If both Russia and Cuba were ok with this, what is the reason he can't just get on a plane to Cuba now?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#634

Post by l33tbro »

sintaxi wrote: post #613
l33tbro wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please elaborate on this? I recently had dinner with a friend in intelligence, who was trying to convince me that Snowden was in bed with Russia from the get-go, and that the 90% of the leak had nothing to do with privacy concerns. I took his opinions with a grain of salt given his background, but also couldn't refute due to being relatively unfamiliar with the Snowden saga.

Good grief, Your friend actually said that with a straight face?

Perhaps attributed to the infamous Upton Sinclair quote:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#635

Post by bluehex »

dcposch wrote: post #528
beedogs wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's okay to call her "she", you know. "They" is a little... odd, when referring to a person.

It's becoming increasingly common. Personally I think esoteric pronouns like "ve" are a silly idea that won't catch on, but I like the idea of using "they" as a gender neutral way to refer to one or more people. It's a straightforward expansion of the current usage: as a gender neutral way to refer to two or more people.

My problem with "they" is that it's overloading the plural pronoun and using it like a singular. This can cause confusion, for example, it makes the comment we're discussing a bit hard to read when in one sentence "they" means Manning and in the next sentence "they" means the government.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#637

Post by gjjrfcbugxbhf »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #620
dragonwriter wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Manning did it wrong, Snowden did it right. AFAIK, both Manning and Snowden released large quantities of information without reviewing all of it in detail for public interest vs. potential harm, and released it not to the public but to third parties that managed public release. The difference is that Manning released it to Assange and Snowden released it to more responsible journalists.

"The difference is that Manning released it to Assange and Snowden released it to more responsible journalists." Sort of. They're more responsible in the general sense but also foreign journalists receiving U.S.'s spying capabilities on foreign persons. The aiding and abetting concept is quite appropriate given they published all kinds of NSA attack strategies & subverted companies while the foreign attacks & compani…

This is wonderful FUD and misdirection. I will bookmark to use as a reference for when I want to careful discredit someone.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#638

Post by hnbro »

adrienne wrote: post #256
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Manning is a woman; is there some reason you're calling her a "they"?

does "they" imply a gender?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#639

Post by hnbro »

beedogs wrote: post #434
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

It's okay to call her "she", you know. "They" is a little... odd, when referring to a person.

i think it's only odd to some because of prescriptive "style guide" insistence over the years. it makes a great deal of sense.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#640

Post by andromeduck »

interfixus wrote: post #562
mhurron wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

Please don't rewrite history. Manning may be a woman today, but was unquestionably a man at the time of the leak. Hence, 'HE acted', not 'she'.

Works both ways really. Like she in her former life.

English is flexible/ambiguous like that.

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