Theresa May: UK must leave European single market • Hacker News Board

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#91

Post by ptero » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:32 PM UTC

BjoernKW wrote: post #58

emptyfile wrote: post #5

"It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer. Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people. Bigger than Japan. Bigger than…

Nice words and I agree with the message. The implementation however is often still deeply flawed. Quite often it's nothing but some aloof bureaucrat's plan (or shall I say pipe dream?). A prime example of this is VAT regulations in the EU, which supposedly have been harmonised and simplified some time ago yet with every iteration, with every 'simplification' they just got worse, less harmonious and more unwieldy to h…

"Ideas are cheap, execution is what matters" is a standard startup advice. I think it is even more relevant to politics and in terms of execution the EU did not do too well. My 2c.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#92

Post by NetStrikeForce » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:32 PM UTC

lwhi wrote: post #63

lwhi wrote: post #41

I find her language very problematic. I didn't vote to leave—so when she claims to be speaking for the British people, I'm left wondering how my voice can count. I'm part of 48% of 72.2%; a lot of people are likely to share my concern. We need a general election. She speaks of what 'she wants'—the most problematic part of this surreal theatrical horror story is fact we the country didn't vote for her. I don't want th…

I'm confused why my comment has been downvoted. Theresa May was not voted into government. Only 52% of (72.2%) of the population voted for Brexit. Quite a disappointing response.

Further proof many, many people don't understand democracy and think you're not allowed a voice.

People, democracy is not the tyranny of the majority. Quite the opposite actually.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#93

Post by Noseshine » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:33 PM UTC

lwhi wrote: post #63

lwhi wrote: post #41

I find her language very problematic. I didn't vote to leave—so when she claims to be speaking for the British people, I'm left wondering how my voice can count. I'm part of 48% of 72.2%; a lot of people are likely to share my concern. We need a general election. She speaks of what 'she wants'—the most problematic part of this surreal theatrical horror story is fact we the country didn't vote for her. I don't want th…

I'm confused why my comment has been downvoted. Theresa May was not voted into government. Only 52% of (72.2%) of the population voted for Brexit. Quite a disappointing response.

The point is there WAS a vote. A democratic vote. I'm looking at it from the outside and don't care either way - except that the way some very vocal ones of the so-called "remainers" dislike democracy and voting as soon as they don't get what they want disgusts me. Remember your attitude when some day - inevitably - it will be the other way around, you won a vote and the other side comes up with the same arguments.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#94

Post by germanier » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

pvdebbe wrote: post #74

Shame if this happens (Amazon.co.uk has been good; Amazon.de doesn't speak English), but UK must do what they think what's good for them. Doing customs declarations in Finland has turned into a hassle since the convenience of EU trade.

Just FYI, Amazon.de introduced English interface and customer support some while back (most product listings are still only German of course).

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#95

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #54

It'll be interesting to see how the UK handles this. I suspect they will fail, but they should be applauded for trying. A single market is not an unmitigated good. The single market that exists within the U.S. is the major reason why federalism has failed. When governments can't exercise control over commerce with external entities, it becomes impossible to really chart a destiny distinct from the larger union. Massa…

[deleted]

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#96

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #27

donmatito wrote: post #14

This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. I hope the best for Europe and UK on their separate path. Given the mess, a clean cut is probably in the best interest of both sides

> This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. Only we never done that. We just allowed for easy border access, united a few laws, and had central bureaucrats and heavier countries step on the throats of lesser ones.

I'm from one of those "lesser" countries - Greece. I can assure you that nobody "stepped on our throat". For years we thrived as part of the EU, until the economic crisis hit and messed it all up. The Germans actually tried to help, in the way they thought was best, and despite appearances of heavy-handedness, nobody tried to force us to leave, which would have been the end of us.

If you remember what happened a couple of years ago, when Syriza came to power, and Yiannis Varoufakis became finance minister, we threatened to leave the EU if our (vague and silly) terms were not accepted. The rest of the EU refused steadfastly, but nobody ever voiced any desire to make us leave the union.

You can contrast this with what is happening right now. When the UK voted for Brexit, the rest of the EU breathed a collective sigh of relief and wished them good riddance. In Brussels they could hardly keep themselves from laughing and dancing a jig, that the great European troublemaker had finally decided to jump over a cliff, feet-first, entirely of its own volition.

Nothing like that happened when Grexit was afoot. Nobody was laughing, everyone was waiting patiently for our national tantrum to abate. Angela Merkel, that evil ogre of a woman who wanted to roast our babies over an open fire [1], waited patiently for our juvenile prime minister to get his shit together and learn how to rule a country.

Nobody wanted to harm the Geeks and nobody tried to harm the Greeks- all harm that came to us we did to ourselves, or it was a result of the economic crisis. Your comment is blaming the wrong people for our woes.

___________

[1] cf. all of the Greek press at the time.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#97

Post by mojuba » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

tornadoboy55 wrote: post #59

mojuba wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for anyone not familiar with what's likely going on behind the scenes: it's about lowering the corporation tax in the UK. I don't know whether this is a new idea or not, but it would give the UK the leverage it needs in negotiations; will persuade many multinational corporations to stay and will even attract new ones. However, there will be a lot of pain for ordinary people in the interim. Not for corporations th…

> will persuade many multinational corporations to stay and will even attract new ones No. To have access to the EU single market, your company MUST have its main base of operation be in a EU member state.

Leaving the single market doesn't mean no access at all, it's just tariffs and some bureaucracy. Not that I support all this, but the Govt. seems to be hoping that becoming a tax haven will compensate all that.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#98

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

paskster wrote: post #71

Europe is not a single market at all. Simple thinks like making sure your invoice is paid from a customer who is based in another european country is practically impossible. I know because I am the CEO of a staffing company in Germany: national as well as international businesses book exhibition staff and other temporary employees for events in Germany and Austria through our platform. If one of our german customers…

This is an interesting aspect. I guess transnational enforcement of contracts is a thorny issue.

Not sure how easy would that be in the USA or Canada (transprovincial) as well

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#99

Post by TillE » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

whositis wrote: post #66

donmatito wrote: post #14

This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. I hope the best for Europe and UK on their separate path. Given the mess, a clean cut is probably in the best interest of both sides

> I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. And that's precisely why it is failing, and will continue to fail. Imagine combining Canada and the USA into a single country.

The EU is not "a single country", obviously. I have no trouble imagining a close EU-like relationship between the US and Canada; until recently, you didn't even need a passport to travel between the two. They're very similar countries which could work together on almost everything.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#100

Post by NetStrikeForce » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

blibble wrote: post #77

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am yet to understand how the EU makes it easier for bigger countries to step on the small ones. Do you think Germany wouldn't be able to throw its weight around to push Poland, Czechia or Slovakia to do whatever they want to? Who would legally put an opposition to that? The lack of an existing legal framework agreed upon all actors would mean there's no deterrent for an escalation if, let's say, France or UK decide…

the veto's power has grossly exaggerated, since the Treaty of Lisbon most decisions are now made using Qualified Majority Voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_E... this is how the spectacularly unpopular migrant relocation was forced through against Eastern Europe's objections

Thanks for sharing!

Some might argue that lessens small countries' power to streamline the decision making. Those would be the same that criticised the EU during the CETA negotiations and the whole Wallonia potential veto.

Nothing is black or white indeed.